QUOTE (Z'areh @ Jul 18 2005, 10:20 PM)
What can I say skhara, I guess we all believe what we want to believe. ANd some people think the Jewish Holocaust did not happen.
"The way I see it, is if individuals have committed crimes, take it up with the individuals"
I cannot permit myself in reconciling with the above expression of letting a government off the hook so easily, I don't want to offend you but I have to say that you sound just like Turkish apologists who absolve the government by blaming rogue groups who might have killed some Armenians, after all the Malta tribunals couldn't find culprits...the same way that Milosovic trials are being bungled up....right?
Which government? The newly created one in Zagreb? The Muslim government? Which one? Or the self-proclaimed government of Republica Srpska?
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As for historical background, the Kosovo Albanians where there long before the communists rearranged borders, they were there long before the Kingdom of Serbs Croats and Slovenes was declared, the promise of the allies to Italy after WWI of Serbian and Croatian lands aggravated the situation where the Kosovo Albanians were armed and started pushing the Serbs out. These were Kosovo Albanians who were Islamized by the Ottomans, they are indigenous to the place we are talking about.
I wasn't talking about Kosovo, I was talking about the Bosnian regions, and the Krajna region. As far as Kosovo, what most people fail to grasps is that a slavic-speacking tribe was settelled in the region called Kosovo and assimilated the local population thus finalising the ethnogenesis of the Serbs. All the inhabitants of Kosovo were Slav-speaking Christians, but they lived in close proximity with others. Serbs were sedentary farmers, Albanians were mostly wondering sheppards. Albanians were Islmisized by Turks and were used as terror squads against Greeks, Serbs, and Macedonians. Albanians populated the region in massive number when the Serbs forced north by the Turks.
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But regardless of History and regardless of the 1389 loss to the Ottoman Empire what the Serbs did in the 1990s was ruthless and unjustified,
And to what exactly are you refering too? Are you calling ruthless and unjustified that what you think they did, or what they actually did? And what exactly do you think they did?
Do you accept the fact that Serbs went around ethnically cleansing Albanians? If they did, they must have been extremely talanted to do so. I mean there were plenty of opportunity for them do it while they could easily form armoured formations and truly go around using force against villages. But no, they had to wait till the air-strikes begin to start their ethnic cleansing. They were especially encouraged by the fact that the NATO promised "to bomb anything that moved". So instead of digging in and camoflauging their positions like they should have, they went around with smiles on thier faces, ethnically cleansing the Albanians.
Now how about a dose of reality? You appear to accept that the KLA is a terrorist organisation. In fact, in 1997, they were listed as one the more dangerous ones by the state department. Do you believe that they gave a crap about Albanian villagers?
Do you also believe that there were no alterior motives by outside forces other than humanitarianism?Kosovo was crawling with all kinds of "observers" (by the way there was scandel raised later that some of these observers were spies planting electronic devices for future bombing targets). Serbs were extremely careful in all that they did. Or do you not believe that? Isn't it possible that KLA heavily increased their activity in every single way to provoke the Serbs knowing full well that they had their NATO allies to back them? I paid attention to the complaints comming from the Serbian side during these "negotiations". And their complaint was that they are trying to tie their hands behind their back while the KLA would be allowed to continue punching them in the face.
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you can always call upon the terror that the KLA caused as justification but then you are smart enough to see the uncanny parallels such justifications would lead to. Plus the Serbs were at war with everybody not just the Albanians, this war was caused by Serbian nationalism that could not swallow loss of Yugoslavia, a country that was so tightly controlled by Tito slip through their hands.
The Serbs were in the middle. Croats and Muslims fought each other too. I don't know why that is hardly mentioned. And they are plenty accouts of atrocities from Croatian-Muslim fighting. So everyone fought everyone else. And how can you make the claim on Serbian nationalism and nothing else? That is ridiculous. What about Croatian nationalism? What about Muslim nationalism? Kosovo is in no way shaped or form similar to anything that happenned in Bosnian and Croatia, it was pretty bloodless.
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This whole subject started with the Srebrenica massacres and that's where I end it by saying the perpetrators should be brought to justice.
Of what? Perpertrators of crimes? I agree. One such crime is deliberate slander in order to justify imperialist agression. And also, continuing to lie after the fact, to divert attention from the crimes conducted by the meddling of the imperialist powers.
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And your words "if individuals have committed crimes, take it up with the individuals" brings to what I said at the start, which also validates my original description of them as being "murdering thugs".
Your statement could have been taken as generalisation and a very insulting one to Serbs at that.
It is difficult when met with statements that are false, and when you know they are. But sadly these false statements continue to be propogated and repeated until turned into a perceived truth.
I was born in Baku, where I lived until I was 9 years old. I can remember the shakeup in the aftermath of Sumgait. We were targeted first, in the ethnic cleansing operation of the Azeris. We were targetted way before "Operation Ring" was in full force. On other hand, the mainstream was making the claims on Serbs about ultra-nationalism, trying to create aa ethnically pure state, NAZIs, etc. Take all that and then take the end result and see that Croatia turned pure. In Bosnia, all the sections are pure, but Serbia 80,000 Albanians are living in Belgrade, next to bunches of Croats and Muslim Slavs. Smells like contradictions to me. And so it is an undeniable fact now over 100,000 Serbs have been "cleansed" from Kosovo. Oh well, they can join their compatriots in the tent cities that were spawned earlier. Hey, maybe Russia can send them some blankets?
You would be surprised how much I know about Kosovo, specifically. I feel confident that if I present that information, I may be able shake your perception. My question is, are you game or are you willing to let your old perceptions that fall directly in line with the repetious cliches continue?
Edited by skhara, 19 July 2005 - 06:49 AM.