45 replies to this topic

[Arpa]

Arpa dear, I gave you the actual Ten Commandments as it was. Remember, when He gave it to Moses,
==

"Moses" who? You mean MosJan?
If you still believe that there actually was a Moses then you must be a good customer for a "slightly used bridge in Brooklyn". Cheap!!

Edited by Arpa, 18 July 2006 - 08:48 PM.

[Takoush]

"Moses" who? You mean MosJan?

Yeah him!

The Moses that Heryas believe in are in Brooklyn (the Brooklyn Bridge].

Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 18 July 2006 - 08:57 PM.

[irlandahay]

The Ten Commandments?
Can you please post them here?
Did Jesus write them? Or was it Hamurabbi?
Did He not say, contrary to those claiming to have written it and still insist that He is unforgiving/vindictive, that God is Love and forgiveness?
May favorite “commandment” is the 11th; “Love thy neighbor”… but don’t let her/his husband/wife know.
What does the “Ten Comedians” have to do with Jesus?
How are those Ten Comedies different from the laws of your country/state that “thou shall not murder/steal/lie/commit adultery” etc.?

ok arpa...u always had a sorta dumb way of making fun of church in every one of your posts!
if you knew anything about anything mister superior arpa, youd know that
the laws of countreysare based on the biblical ten commandments...ten commandments werent written by god nor was the bible,
stop taking everything to seriously!
god wrote no book, the book was written in metaphores to tell us how god would prefer us to be...
"im no theologian, im not sure who or what god is exactly, but i know he is a force more powerful then mom and dad put together...and you owe him big"-lisa simpson

god is a symbol! al that is good, just as satan is all that is bad...
wherever murder is committed...there is satan!

arpa im tired of your provocative and insulting posts!

[Yervant1]

"Moses" who? You mean MosJan?
If you still believe that there actually was a Moses then you must be a good customer for a "slightly used bridge in Brooklyn". Cheap!!

Arpa I have a slightly used second hand bridge as well, while at it please find me a customer too.
BTW did you say Mosjan might buy it?

Edited by Yervant1, 18 July 2006 - 10:37 PM.

[Djrak]

Can someone please explain to me how Jesus dying "for us" is a sacrifice? If He was the Son of God (or just "God" as some claim), why would dying for God's message be any sort of sacrifice? I mean I would understand if He gave up something special to die but He was going to heaven so what could possibly compare to Heaven that would constitute the tradeoff a "sacrifice"?

Also, all these slogans of "Jesus died for our sins" ... how did He die for "our sins"? Didn't He die for His own benefit to go to Heaven?

Hey Sip,

How's it goin? let me explain this to you briefly:

1- God created man in His own image out of soil and breathed His Spirit in man to give him life. This was an act of Love. he gave man a priviledge that no other being has.
2- man was living perfectly in communion with God in complete freedom
3- man sinned and caused the entire creation to fall (animals eating each other, deserts, volcanos, diseases, etc..)
4- Man died spiritually and lost his connection with God (his only source of life), man lost his glory and felt naked but God sacrificed the first animalto clothe man who became naked of the glory of God which he was wearing before and this sacrifice was the first sign of teh coming REAL sacrifice (on the cross)
btw: this is how religion started (Man never needed religion)
5- God continuously tried to reach the hearts of His people while preparing them for the sacrifice thru which He was going to save humanity
6-When time came He sent his Son(the word of God, logos, the 2nd person of teh trinity) to the world to take the human nature and live a life without sin but using none of His power as God but only His obedience to the Father to show to ppl how to restore their communion (thru faith) he performed miracles, healed the sick, casted demons He was here as light of the world, but the world rejected Him and crucified Him. he in His own free will gave his life and died on the cross to go down to hell and offer the same salvation to ppl trapped there then was raised becaused he reversed the law of death he was life and he could not die, so death could not have any power over him, and that is how whoever believes in him will also be saved from th etrap of sin and death.
7- All that the Son did was with 1 and only one purpose: to go to the Father as a pleasing offering and send the 3rd person: the Spirit of God to the world so that whoever believes in him may receive the Spirit and become a son of God (just as Adam was) thus bringing humans (believers) back to the original statte of Adam (no sin, no illness, no worry, no sadness, no death, no religion) in union with God with the inheritance of the Kingdom of God.
8- those living by the Spirit pf God are now witnesses of the heavenly life but are living on earth as ambassadors waiting for the 2nd return of the Lord to judge the earth, those believers who have surredered to God but refused to live by the Spirit later are in a state where they decide with their human minds and not led by God and may give you false or fake or ineffective explanations on the sacrifice of our Lord.

I hope that helped you.

If you have further questions visit this site and send questions to the e-mail provided there (they will provide more elaborate answers for you):

www.the springoflife.com

Edited by Djrak, 19 July 2006 - 04:25 AM.

[DominO]

Sip, let me explain you this mathematically.

Be A, all the universes Jesus lived in in the same time before he died.
Be E, all the universes in which Jesus died when he died.
Be A-E the universes Jesus lived in after he died.

Jesus sacrified E.

Edited by QueBeceR, 19 July 2006 - 10:55 AM.

[Yervant1]

Sip, let me explain you this mathematically.

Be A, all the universes Jesus lived in in the same time before he died.
Be E, all the universes in which Jesus died when he died.
Be A-E the universes Jesus lived in after he died.

Jesus sacrified E.

As if Djrak's explanation was not complicated enough now this.

[MosJan]

"Moses" who? You mean MosJan?
If you still believe that there actually was a Moses then you must be a good customer for a "slightly used bridge in Brooklyn". Cheap!!

in the best case scenario i can split a topic - so by the powers invested in me by Garo and my ForumMembers, I now Split this topic

[Yervant1]

in the best case scenario i can split a topic - so by the powers invested in me by Garo and my ForumMembers, I now Split this topic

Are you telling us that you won't be buying our used bridges anymore?

[aSoldier]

Can someone please explain to me how Jesus dying "for us" is a sacrifice? If He was the Son of God (or just "God" as some claim), why would dying for God's message be any sort of sacrifice? I mean I would understand if He gave up something special to die but He was going to heaven so what could possibly compare to Heaven that would constitute the tradeoff a "sacrifice"?

Also, all these slogans of "Jesus died for our sins" ... how did He die for "our sins"? Didn't He die for His own benefit to go to Heaven?

The concept of sacrifice in the Bible is the idea of an offering that is for the purpose of obtaining forgiveness and for satisfying the demands of God's justice.

The significance and effectiveness of Jesus' sacrifice was not dependent upon how much He was "giving up." It was dependent on the fact that He was God and was also man, a perfect man without sin, who was of the race of Adam but did not have the sinfulness of Adam's race. This made it possible for his blood sacrifice to obtain redemption for us by His suffering the punishment of death in our place. By faith in Him, we therefore, receive the forgiveness of sins and His righteousness before the Father.

In addition, you also must realize that though He knew He would be raised from the dead, He was still a man, and the suffering underwent was tremendous.

PM me if you still have questions..

Edited by sSebB, 21 July 2006 - 01:55 AM.

[Yervant1]

You are going to hear from Seb you mister.

Sip I told you, you are going to hear from Seb.
Now do you get it?

[Sip]

Sip; if you are not going to call me names, I'll tell you from what I know.

God send his only son to this world so that His son through His teachings and His way of living and behaviour towards people and also animals show the world how God wants us to live and wants us to love one another; but also to always follow Gods rules and also the Ten Commandments. Jesus died on the cross at the ripe age of only 33 and He died by bearing all our sins upon Himself. It took Him I believe about 3 hours to die; but during that time, I believe He experienced all the hellish consequences that us people would've bear while He was on the cross. Those 3 or 3+ hours, it felt like 30 years for Him; because He felt extreme emotional and spritual pain while He took upon Himself all our sins, so that we the human kind would be able to go to heavan rather than being condemned to go to hell as it was the case before Jesus came to this earth.

God did all that. ...

So if I understand you correctly, the "sacrifice" of Jesus was the few hours he suffered horrible pain while he was dying on the cross?

[Sip]

... the book was written in metaphores ... god is a symbol ... arpa im tired of your provocative and insulting posts!

Those are not the positions that the Church holds. I think that's why Arpa is "insulting" the church. I would definitely agree with you but I do not agree at all with the church. If you don't believe me, just ask sSebB to tell you what he believes

[Sip]

His own free will gave his life and died on the cross to go down to hell and offer the same salvation to ppl trapped there then was raised becaused he reversed the law of death he was life and he could not die, so death could not have any power over him, and that is how whoever believes in him will also be saved from th etrap of sin and death. ...

So at first Jesus went to Hell after his death? I understand what you are saying (I think) but I don't understand if you are saying Jesus sacrificed something or not. Was there a sacrifice on the part of Jesus?

[Sip]

The concept of sacrifice in the Bible is the idea of an offering that is for the purpose of obtaining forgiveness and for satisfying the demands of God's justice.

The significance and effectiveness of Jesus' sacrifice was not dependent upon how much He was "giving up." It was dependent on the fact that He was God and was also man, a perfect man without sin, who was of the race of Adam but did not have the sinfulness of Adam's race. This made it possible for his blood sacrifice to obtain redemption for us by His suffering the punishment of death in our place. By faith in Him, we therefore, receive the forgiveness of sins and His righteousness before the Father.

In addition, you also must realize that though He knew He would be raised from the dead, He was still a man, and the suffering underwent was tremendous.

Strangely enough, this is probably the best explanation of what I asked so far. Thanks.

[Takoush]

So if I understand you correctly, the "sacrifice" of Jesus was the few hours he suffered horrible pain while he was dying on the cross?

He gave His life and His blood to redeem for us which was punishable by death (not just to suffer bodily death, but the death of our souls through eternity). By dying on the cross He made it possible to cleanse our sins to appear righteous in the eyes of God.

I thought I made it clear before that Jesus died on the cross within a few hours, but during that time He felt tremendous emotional sufferings that made Him feel more like 30 years and not just a few hours of sufferings. He bore all that to cleanse our sins forever, however when we believe in Him and have faith in Him, we'll appear to God as righteous men so that we will be acceptable in the eyes of God when we finally appear in front of Him.

[Djrak]

So at first Jesus went to Hell after his death?

yes, he had to. whoever died went to hell or hades, Jesus being a complete human died on the cross and descended to hades but having lived a sinless life and being life itself death could not hold him there so he was raised and raised everyone who believed and who were waiting for the Christ there.

I understand what you are saying (I think) but I don't understand if you are saying Jesus sacrificed something or not. Was there a sacrifice on the part of Jesus?

Ofcourse, He gave his life, he took our sinful nature and lived a life without sin because he stayed connected to the Father thru teh Holy Spirit. He, in his own free will, obeyed the Father and did not do what he wanted but what the Father wanted, he gave his life on the cross and was separated from the Father for a little while so he could die (otherwise it was impossible for him to die).

God couldve called a whole army of angels and destroyed the entire nation of Jews, Romans, or created 10 other planets just like this in a split second. But he couldnt because he is just. His righteousness doent allow that. He sacrificed His only son for the entire humanity. His love reached that level of sacrifice.

Hope that makes it clearer for you.

[Anoushik]

3- man sinned and caused the entire creation to fall (animals eating each other, deserts, volcanos, diseases, etc..)

Here's where everything falls apart. Why did man sin? If man was created from God's image and placed into the wonderful paradise to live harmoniously with nature and God, then how could man sin? It must've come from the within of man, from man's nature that God created. It doesn't make sense, for it means that God created man to sin.

[Takoush]

Here's where everything falls apart. Why did man sin? If man was created from God's image and placed into the wonderful paradise to live harmoniously with nature and God, then how could man sin? It must've come from the within of man, from man's nature that God created. It doesn't make sense, for it means that God created man to sin.

anoushik jan: True God created man, but He didn't make man to be like robots, He created man to have their own mind and be an entity of their own (having each their own character and the free will and mind); but if you also recall in the Bible in the beginning of the Genesis, God made it clear to Adam and Eve not to eat the fruits from one particular tree and they believed in Satan and they did it anyway. It was after that that they felt the nakedness and the shamefulness of them being naked. That's how God found out that they have disobeyed. But, in a nutshell, God yes created men, but he also created them to have a free mind and a free will.

[Takoush]

Actually Adam and Eve didn't so much believe in Satan, but mostly they were tempted by Satan to act in a certain way to have them disobey God. Satan wishes was to make God's creation disobey God and have them suffer as they have and still do; unless as it stands now, if they believe in Jesus and God and to be saved that way.

But like I said before, God created men to each have his/her own free will and individual minds. But to also obey Him and His rules to gain success, goodness and happiness through eternity.

Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 22 July 2006 - 12:38 AM.