72 replies to this topic

[Armat]

Vigil by saying this I know I will become an "enemy" but sincerely few advise.
1.Read carfully before responding. TB and ED and others already know this and pointed it out.
2.I believe you are a sincere nationalistic Armenian but the danger is you are crossing the line to become a nationalistic chauvinist. The line is very delicate and others have fallen into the pit many times ie AR, Anoush, and the like.I am sure you met them already.
3.That's all

[ED]

Vigil, Axel, and who ever wrote or said anything offensive, used caps or dident comply with forum rules, clean up, or you'll get a warning, this is the last friendly warning you'll get!

[THOTH]

Sev-Marde - hey there my man welcome back - and what a great post! (and sorry for not getting back to you...)

Vigil - please get a life. While some of your concerns are valid on a certain level - I think your understanding of things is much too narowly focused. And your generalizations - and racist thoughts - as expressed - well I find them quite disturbing/disgusting - to say the least...

And since when can Armenians be considered a "race"...Is this from the "Goebbles school of racial classifications"....

Edited by THOTH, 27 May 2004 - 09:41 PM.

[angel4hope]

while some of you are here arguing for or against the assimilation of our race/ethinicity or what not- im sure those who are doing the assimilation are going on with their lives- and diong what they please- you cannot dictate what each invdividual should or shouldn not do- although we dont liek what we see- we cannot make people do things- so save the harsh words and be nice 2 one another- afterall we all live in the same planet earth and have to learn how 2 get along-

[THOTH]

those who are doing the assimilation are going on with their lives- and diong what they please- you cannot dictate what each invdividual should or shouldn not do

Yes this is the crux of it. And being "Armenian" and "Armenian culture" etc etc is not a static thing - like everythign else it evolves...

People have a right to do as they wish and have no obligation to conform to the wishes of others (about how they should be).

Armenians have been a diaspora for many generations - and thay have adapted and done what it takes to survive. There are Armenians providing for their families and living succesfully and well in many cultures - who is anyone to say that they have made the wrong choices - and this extends to who the marry - very much so - I mean how much more persoanl doe sit get?

If there are aspects of Armenian culture that are worthwhile to people - then the culture will survive...and you must also realize it is not just Armenain culture that is under attack (though understood - the argument of small numbers) - very few live in isolation anymore - time does not stand still - western society permeates all (do you really think Al Queda et al will win? etc).....the future is upon us - and we must adapt and survive - its just the way of things...work to make a better world - but OK - certainly respect/appreciate your past - live it if you must or can live no other way (but realize that most will not choose this path) - this world of today moves foreward regardless - we need to understand the dynamics of these changes and attempt to steer ourselves (all humanity) to a better future (this would be doing a true service)...so cheer up and make the best of it - (what good is it being bitter and hateful?)

[gamavor]

Boy, if this third years student knew how much attention he got for nothing....Why are you so surprised. I know tons of Armenians from Middle East that look like Arabs. Do you think Arabs make any difference? That's why I said take it as a compliment of emancipation.


And please next time when you discuss student papers even those in circulation and publication in the American Universities, please discuss them right there.

Edited by gamavor, 27 May 2004 - 10:36 PM.

[axel]

And of course such action would require a Hitler to be on top of the job

this was not to be understood in a literal fashion

[sev-mard]

Barev, THOTH

Just floating back through, getting into trouble as usual.

Peace

Edited by sev-mard, 28 May 2004 - 08:20 AM.

[Anaheet]

Why are you guys so concerned about how you're labelled? If it's false - it's false. Great. Why worry?

Would it be so 'degrading' if Armenians were put in the same category as the British? Or the Swedes? Or maybe East Indians would be more acceptable and less 'degrading' ?? C'mon folks - these ideas of racial/ethnic superiority are better left in the trash cans of the past century.

Amen to that!

[Anaheet]

Concerning your statements on ppl believing that they can learn armenian language/history and replace a hye mard, where do you get such ideas. Do you know ppl who actually think this? No need to b.s. I'm sure I'm part of the impetus for your statement, and I don't for a second take on any such false ideas. I happen to enjoy learning and know how much it'd mean to my significant other if I could communicate in a language more comfortable to her. You said that you wonder why you had to be born into the burden of being Hye, I say the same daily as I deal with the ins and outs of being black and dealing with how people deal with me. Crossing over or becoming something else is not an option, nor do I want it to be. Anyway I'd just like to know your reasons for believing that ppl think they can replace armenians when dating an armenians, as if it is some sort of purposeful subversive act.



I see your points and hear the rhetoric that you are preaching. What is your view on the state of "Armenianess" concerning SpuirkaHyes now? And how to you propose that Hyer reach the levels that you wish them to be at. Obviously stopping miscegination is the 1st step, yet after that what do you propose in order to advance as a people, race, and nation? Your views of cultural uniquness, purity and singularity aren't new, and there are people who think like you for every race in every country on the planet. In the end, when it's all said and done, what do you envision for your people and how do you propose you all go about doing it?

Thank you very much. I agree with what you've said.

[Anaheet]

I cannot believe you just said Armenia needs a Hitler. Armenia was on the receiving end of a Hitler (Talaat ***** and his cronies), and you think we should grow our own?

Hitler was a monster. No country needs a leader like that. He led the corruption of his entire society, and then all of Europe.

You sound like a classic early 20th century eugenecist, except most of them would have classified you as being too dark to be part of their master race. You really think Armenians would have fared better than Gypsies in Nazi Germany? We're the same color, for crying out loud! (And yes, I have olive skin. My features are Armenian. As if that matters to you.)

And how dare you attack a black person! Haven't blacks been attacked enough by idiot white supremacists? Now you have to be an Armenian supremacist?

I just want you to know my father was stopped and threatened by the KKK- that's the Ku Klux Klan, in case you didn't know- when he was in the South in the '60s. He was too dark for them, you know. Him, a pureblooded Caucasian Armenian. Yes, us pure Indo-Europeans! I've heard the arguments!

Also, when my mother was about to marry my father, my great-aunt said something about how her kids would be 'black.' Hmmm, sounds an awful lot like your argument, doesn't it? Only in this case, my father was the 'otar.'

And what are you doing attacking Christianity? Do you really think the Armenian language or culture would have survived without it? Look at Azerbaijan- I've heard that the people there were once Armenian in language and culture. They became Turk because of converting to Islam.

That is besides the other benefits, less tangible, of Christianity.

I don't expect you to listen to me; your mind is closed. I'm just putting this out there for the record.

[Sasun]

It is amazing how some people fail to see that Hitler was a big LOOSER aside from being wrong on all moral counts. Germany suffered huge losses and moral damage that continues to hurt German national feelings today - just because of him. After the history has clearly shown the place of Hitler and his sick ideology how can a rational person want such a looser for leader ??? It is simply bizarre.

[sev-mard]

how can a rational person want such a looser for leader ??? It is simply bizarre.

The key word here Sasun is rational...

[koko]

"And what are you doing attacking Christianity? Do you really think the Armenian language or culture would have survived without it? Look at Azerbaijan- I've heard that the people there were once Armenian in language and culture. They became Turk because of converting to Islam."

Religion and nationalities/culture are different things. So we stayed armenian due to religion youre saying?Why shouldnt the armenian nation have survived without christinity, could you name an example, please?

[THOTH]

I cannot believe you just said Armenia needs a Hitler. Armenia was on the receiving end of a Hitler (Talaat ***** and his cronies), and you think we should grow our own?

Hitler was a monster. No country needs a leader like that. He led the corruption of his entire society, and then all of Europe.

You sound like a classic early 20th century eugenecist, except most of them would have classified you as being too dark to be part of their master race. You really think Armenians would have fared better than Gypsies in Nazi Germany? We're the same color, for crying out loud! (And yes, I have olive skin. My features are Armenian. As if that matters to you.)

And how dare you attack a black person! Haven't blacks been attacked enough by idiot white supremacists? Now you have to be an Armenian supremacist?

I just want you to know my father was stopped and threatened by the KKK- that's the Ku Klux Klan, in case you didn't know- when he was in the South in the '60s. He was too dark for them, you know. Him, a pureblooded Caucasian Armenian. Yes, us pure Indo-Europeans! I've heard the arguments!

Also, when my mother was about to marry my father, my great-aunt said something about how her kids would be 'black.' Hmmm, sounds an awful lot like your argument, doesn't it? Only in this case, my father was the 'otar.'

And what are you doing attacking Christianity? Do you really think the Armenian language or culture would have survived without it? Look at Azerbaijan- I've heard that the people there were once Armenian in language and culture. They became Turk because of converting to Islam.

That is besides the other benefits, less tangible, of Christianity.

I don't expect you to listen to me; your mind is closed. I'm just putting this out there for the record.

Anaheet - first welcome to our forum - i think you will like it here (racist rants by some aside)...and right on with your post - I like how you think.

It seems you and I share something of our backgrounds. My mother is Armenian and my father mixed Northern European. My mother experienced much discrimination due to her color/ethnicity growing up and it affects her attitudes to this day (and caused her to disuade me from learning Armenain - so like you I do not speak - and to this day she insists that I "be" American and forget everything about my Armenian heritage). She also experienced the same sort of racist attitudes from many of may fathers family - including from my grandmother - who never really accepted her as "white" - so i hear you.

So again welcome - stick around - we need more who think as you do (emphasis on "think")...and good luck on your quest to discover/understand your history/heritage/culture etc - I think that - for the most part - you will find this forum somewhat helpful (and interesting/entertaining/enlightening & worthwhile) in this regard.

[Anaheet]

Anaheet,May 28 2004, 04:41 PM]"And what are you doing attacking Christianity? Do you really think the Armenian language or culture would have survived without it? Look at Azerbaijan- I've heard that the people there were once Armenian in language and culture. They became Turk because of converting to Islam."

Religion and nationalities/culture are different things. So we stayed armenian due to religion youre saying?Why shouldnt the armenian nation have survived without christinity, could you name an example, please?

I'm just saying that it looks to me like if we had converted to Islam like everybody else, we would have adopted the less savory aspects of Arabic culture (polygamy for example) and the better aspects of our culture would have been lost. Loss of language would probably have followed as well- look at Iran, which lost its Alphabet, or Egypt, which lost its language.

By not becoming part of the Islamic "Ummah," we managed to maintain our cultural identity, our cultural integrity.

I'm not saying you're not a real Armenian if you're not a Christian.

[Anaheet]

Anaheet - first welcome to our forum - i think you will like it here (racist rants by some aside)...and right on with your post - I like how you think.

Thanks, Thoth. I'm flattered.

It seems you and I share something of our backgrounds. My mother is Armenian and my father mixed Northern European.

I've got the reverse- Father hye, mother not. My dad's a first generation immigrant, a ParskaHye from Khuzistan (southern Iran, by the Arabian Sea, so hot that the asphalt melts). His family was one of those who had been in Isfahan since Shah Abbas (I believe it was Shah Abbas) deported a whole bunch of them to build mosques and what-all. My mom's family's been in the US since it was the Colonies- since the 1600s. I like to say that makes me a typical American. <G>

My mother experienced much discrimination due to her color/ethnicity growing up and it affects her attitudes to this day (and caused her to disuade me from learning Armenain - so like you I do not speak - and to this day she insists that I "be" American and forget everything about my Armenian heritage).

My dad encountered that sort of thing growing up a member of the Christian Armenian minority in Muslim Iran, and then again when he immigrated to America with a strong accent. He insisted that me and my brother get American first names (Anaheet is just a handle- it's the name of one of my dad's first cousins)- my mother, the nonArmenian, wanted us to be Ani and Ara!

She also experienced the same sort of racist attitudes from many of may fathers family - including from my grandmother - who never really accepted her as "white" - so i hear you.

So did my dad. That's not the only such story he can tell (the KKK thing). He still has the KKK literature they gave him. I think he thinks of it as a badge of honor. So do I, frankly. If the Klan hates you, you must be all right!

One of my ex-uncles (one of my aunts' ex-husbands) has said some nasty things about my dad. My dad calls him "Shoon Ferre-ghar." (The "ghar" part is supposed to be Farsi for "donkey," I don't know how to transliterate it. Of course "shoon" is dog!) He always enjoys his bilingual joke.

I think that kind of talk is silliness at best and virulently evil at worst.

So again welcome - stick around - we need more who think as you do (emphasis on "think")...and good luck on your quest to discover/understand your history/heritage/culture etc - I think that - for the most part - you will find this forum somewhat helpful (and interesting/entertaining/enlightening & worthwhile) in this regard.

Thanks, man. It's nice to know I'm not the only half-Hye floating around here.

I appreciate the welcome!

If I ever manage to make it to Hayastan, I'll let you guys know!

Oh, and true story: I am picking up more and more Armenian as I go along. My aunt (my dad's sister) is staying with us as she recovers from back surgery. She asked my dad "Ginis vordergheh?" and I immediately went to get it. I understood she was asking where was her wine. Ten years ago, I would not have been able to pick that up.

[sev-mard]

She asked my dad "Ginis vordergheh?" and I immediately went to get it.

Fridgei mech a, hamestek.

[Anaheet]

Fridgei mech a, hamestek.

Inch? Inch es asum?

[Azat]

He is inviting us over for food and drinks. Apparently Sev-mart is throwing a huge party for HyeForum members. When do I come?

"Fridgei mech a, hamestek." - it's inside the fridge, come over.