45 replies to this topic

[Sip]

Can someone please explain to me how Jesus dying "for us" is a sacrifice? If He was the Son of God (or just "God" as some claim), why would dying for God's message be any sort of sacrifice? I mean I would understand if He gave up something special to die but He was going to heaven so what could possibly compare to Heaven that would constitute the tradeoff a "sacrifice"?

Also, all these slogans of "Jesus died for our sins" ... how did He die for "our sins"? Didn't He die for His own benefit to go to Heaven?

Edited by Sip, 18 July 2006 - 04:12 PM.

[Yervant1]

Can someone please explain to me how Jesus dying "for us" is a sacrifice? If He was the Son of God (or just "God" as some claim), why would dying for God's message be any sort of sacrifice? I mean I would understand if He gave up something special to die but He was going to heaven so what could possibly compare to Heaven that would constitute the tradeoff a "sacrifice"?

Also, all these slogans of "Jesus died for our sins" ... how did He die for "our sins"? Didn't He die for His own benefit to go to Heaven?

You are going to hear from Seb you mister.

[Arpa]

What gets me most are bumper stickers that say; “JESUS SAVES”.
Will someone please tell me at which bank?

[Yervant1]

What gets me most are bumper stickers that say; “JESUS SAVES”.
Will someone please tell me at which bank?

These are banks that you can only deposit, called bank of Church.
For withdrawels you get an IOUs to be cashed in heaven if you get there in time.

[Arpa]

These are banks that you can only deposit, called bank of Church.
For withdrawels you get an IOUs to be cashed in heaven if you get there in time.

Verrry interrresting!
What is the latest rate?
Below it says “Qoh”. It is in fact known as the book of Ecclesiastes. ԺՈՂՈՎՈՂԻ in Armenian, based on the word “Ecclesia/Eglise/Ekeghetsi”, i.e zhoghovaran, as some orthodox Armenians will label a Protestant church.
Qoh.11
[1] Cast thy bread** upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days.
How many days? Is it a savings account compounded quarterly, or a CD?
**In American slang “bread” is used to mean money/dollars. Hence it shall be; “Give us this day our daily dollar/Զհաց/դրամ մեր հանապազօր…”.

Edited by Arpa, 18 July 2006 - 06:39 PM.

[Yervant1]

How many days?

These are Biblical (church) days, meaning you'll never get it back. Like in kiss it goodbye.

[Arpa]

These are Biblical (church) days, meaning you'll never get it back. Like in kiss it goodbye.

Like in forty days and forty nights of (Noah's) flood?

[Yervant1]

Like in forty days and forty nights of (Noah's) flood?

If you land on Ararat and have pigeons to send your IOUs, may be then you will get it in fourty years.

[Takoush]

Can someone please explain to me how Jesus dying "for us" is a sacrifice? If He was the Son of God (or just "God" as some claim), why would dying for God's message be any sort of sacrifice? I mean I would understand if He gave up something special to die but He was going to heaven so what could possibly compare to Heaven that would constitute the tradeoff a "sacrifice"?

Also, all these slogans of "Jesus died for our sins" ... how did He die for "our sins"? Didn't He die for His own benefit to go to Heaven?

Sip; if you are not going to call me names, I'll tell you from what I know.

God send his only son to this world so that His son through His teachings and His way of living and behaviour towards people and also animals show the world how God wants us to live and wants us to love one another; but also to always follow Gods rules and also the Ten Commandments. Jesus died on the cross at the ripe age of only 33 and He died by bearing all our sins upon Himself. It took Him I believe about 3 hours to die; but during that time, I believe He experienced all the hellish consequences that us people would've bear while He was on the cross. Those 3 or 3+ hours, it felt like 30 years for Him; because He felt extreme emotional and spritual pain while He took upon Himself all our sins, so that we the human kind would be able to go to heavan rather than being condemned to go to hell as it was the case before Jesus came to this earth.

God did all that. He did bring to our world His only son for the love of us the people whom He created. Because before Jesus humans were condemned to go to hell as practically no one followed God's rules to the tea, and therefore God created His son Jesus for that so that by knowing what God wants us to do and live on earth we'll be able to go to heavan, or at least have the option.

But there is one more thing to do for us humans now. We have to follow God's words, the Ten Commandments and what Jesus preached us, which was what God's words, rules and wishes were.
Therefore, when we dedicate ourselves to Jesus, then we may go to heavan; which is in the final analysis, it is still up to God to decide.

Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 18 July 2006 - 07:18 PM.

[Arpa]

Sip; if you are not going to call me names, I'll tell you from what I know.
===
God send his only son to this world so that His son

Watch out Anahid.
You are treading in turbulent waters.
You mean God had "only one son"?
What about me?
Am I the son of Satan?
Some may think so!

Edited by Arpa, 18 July 2006 - 07:23 PM.

[Yervant1]

Am I the son of Satan?
Some may think so!

I do,
In order to bring you back to the fold, we need fourty priests, two kings (Etcmiadzin and Gilikia) and fourty sargavaks hit your forehead for fourty days and fourty nights then may be you will be the son of God.

[Arpa]

Sip; if you are not going to call me names, I'll tell you from what I know.

God send his only son to this world so that His son through His teachings and His way of living and behaviour towards people and also animals show the world how God wants us to live and wants us to love one another; but also to always follow Gods rules and also the Ten Commandments. Jesus died
====.
Therefore, when we dedicate ourselves to Jesus, then we may go to heavan; which is in the final analysis, it is still up to God to decide.

The Ten Commandments?
Can you please post them here?
Did Jesus write them? Or was it Hamurabbi?
Did He not say, contrary to those claiming to have written it and still insist that He is unforgiving/vindictive, that God is Love and forgiveness?
May favorite “commandment” is the 11th; “Love thy neighbor”… but don’t let her/his husband/wife know.
What does the “Ten Comedians” have to do with Jesus?
How are those Ten Comedies different from the laws of your country/state that “thou shall not murder/steal/lie/commit adultery” etc.?

[Arpa]

I do,
In order to bring you back to the fold, we need fourty priests, two kings (Etcmiadzin and Gilikia) and fourty sargavaks hit your forehead for fourty days and fourty nights then may be you will be the son of God.

You just fortified my foreskin . Those who wrote those stories about forty days of flood and forty years in the Sinai don't even have forsekins. again.

[Takoush]

Watch out Anahid.
You are treading in turbulent waters.
You mean God had "only one son"?
What about me?
Am I the son of Satan?
Some may think so!

Arpa dear, of course you are God's creature and you are also my brother. Don't you know that I like you? I do. And believe me God loves you too!!!!!

[Takoush]

The Ten Commandments?
Can you please post them here?
Did Jesus write them? Or was it Hamurabbi?
Did He not say, contrary to those claiming to have written it and still insist that He is unforgiving/vindictive, that God is Love and forgiveness?
May favorite “commandment” is the 11th; “Love thy neighbor”… but don’t let her/his husband/wife know.
What does the “Ten Comedians” have to do with Jesus?
How are those Ten Comedies different from the laws of your country/state that “thou shall not murder/steal/lie/commit adultery” etc.?

Here we are Arpa:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before ME.

2. Thous shalt not make unto thee any graven image.

3. Thous shalt not take the Name of the LORD thy GOD in vain.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

5. Honor thy father and thy mother.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

10. Thou shalt not covet.

By the way Arpa, the Ten Commandments were given to us by God, that's why it is said to follow it.

[Arpa]

Of course I know what the Ten Comedies are.

Exod.20
[1] And God spake all these words, saying,
[2] I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
[3] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
[4] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[5] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[6] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
[7] Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
[8] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
[9] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
[10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
[11] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
[12] Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
[13] Thou shalt not kill.
[14] Thou shalt not commit adultery.
[15] Thou shalt not steal.
[16] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
[17] Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Here we are Arpa:
=
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Sabbath?
Which Synagogue do you go on the Sabbath/seventh day?
Is not "Ahhad/First/Sunday/Kiraki" our holy day?
You mean, were it not for the Ten Comedies "kill/murder" would be legal?

[Takoush]

Arpa dear, I gave you the actual Ten Commandments as it was. Remember, when He gave it to Moses, He mentioned to them Sabbath; because they used to preserve the Saturdays; but of course for us Christians, it is Sunday to be preserved. Basically you know, one day a week.

[Arpa]

Arpa dear, of course you are God's creature and you are also my brother. Don't you know that I like you? I do. And believe me God loves you too!!!!!

I know that.
But when we say ; "His only begotten son" makes me wonder why we say "OUR FATHER/ՀԱՅՐ ՄԵՐ" everytime we recite the Lord's Prayer!
That is if "HE is the only begotten son". What are we? Bastards?

Edited by Arpa, 18 July 2006 - 08:16 PM.

[Takoush]

I know that.
But when we say ; "His only begotten son" makes me wonder why we say "OUR FATHER/ՀԱՅՐ ՄԵՐ" everytime we recite the Lord's Prayer!
That is if "HE is the only begotten son". What are we? Bastards?

No of course not. It's just that He called Jesus His son and through His son, God gave us His message and how He likes us to be and live on this earth to become worthy as His favourites and to be saved in the end, worthy to go to heaven for our benefit.

Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 18 July 2006 - 08:27 PM.

[Arpa]

No of course not. It's just that He called Jesus His son and through His son,
===

C'mon kids!
Can we get over this Jewhovah loves the Jews, Allah loves the Muslims, and Astuats loves the (Christian) Armenian thing.
After all, are not they all woven of the same "yarn"?
--
"yarn (yärn)
n.
A continuous strand of twisted threads of natural or synthetic material, such as wool or nylon, used in weaving or knitting.
Informal. A long, often elaborate narrative of real or fictitious adventures; an entertaining tale.
intr.v. Informal., yarned, yarn·ing, yarns.
To tell an entertaining tale or series of tales."