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Poll: Is death penalty right?

Is death penalty right?

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#81 SirumemKez20

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 04:10 PM

I don't think it's worth to pay tax in order to keep people like child molesters and serial rapists/killers alive. I don't believe these people can be 'cured'.

Just my opinion.

I agree with you Gurgen, I don't think it's right for others (criminals) to take an innocent persons life, or rape anyone. I think people like that are sick, and shouldn't deserve to live they sit in jail watch cable, eat, sleep, what else do they need? I don't think that by them thinking about what they have done, will change anything. :)

Edited by SirumemKez20, 08 December 2003 - 04:11 PM.


#82 Anileve

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 04:26 PM

I don't think it's worth to pay tax in order to keep people like child molesters and serial rapists/killers alive. I don't believe these people can be 'cured'.

Just my opinion.

Letís explore this statement. I am sure that you donít want to murder all criminal, irrelevant of their crimes, thus prisons should still exit. Now if you consider this true, then it is also true that to keep the system alive the Gov. has to delegate a certain portion of your taxes towards the funding of prisons. You and I have no say in which prisoners we would like to fund, or which pothole we would like to be fixed with our tax money. The Gov. decides that for us, itís a public sector, now if you ran your own private prison than you might decide whoíll get fried and who will have the desert for being good. Other than that extreme systems always have loopholes and to play with the possibility of executing an innocent individual is very dangerous.

Living with your crimes is a severe punishment on itís own, being executed never fulfills the prophecy of Karma. Just watch 21 Grams and perhaps you might understand.

#83 vava

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 09:26 PM

You guys should all watch 21 grams, sheds some light on this issue indirectly. Perhaps you might see things from a different point of view.

Ani - I think I've seen you mention his in another thread. Do you more info about the film or the cast? A URL, maybe? I'd love to know more - sounds very interesting.
Thanks.

#84 vava

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 09:35 PM

You and I have no say in which prisoners we would like to fund, or which pothole we would like to be fixed with our tax money. The Gov. decides that for us, itís a public sector...

that may be true - but small-time crooks, and two-bit criminals are not likely to stay in prison for a long time. The economic issue is exacerbated by life sentences lasting 25 years or more. That's 25 years of 3-meals a day, TV time, excercise everyday, free health-care and precription drugs, cigarette allowance, conjugal visits, access to libraries, computers, internet, education by correspondance....the list goes on. Why? :huh:

When someone decides to take the life of another - or to scar/traumatize someone future through repugnant violence or rape - then they FOREGO there individual human rights. It's simple. And still, the death penalty should not be used unless there is a solid irrefutable evidence that the purpetrator is guilty.

That my two cents...

#85 Anileve

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 10:11 PM

Iíve noticed that rape has been brought up as a brutal crime that should be worthy of Death Penalty. Well letís look at the facts here: rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years. Instead of emphasizing the importance of Death Penalty, donít you think that we should advocate a longer sentence for rape, it just sounds so absurd and makes me so furious, you can just tell that men are still dominating the law making business. Rape with a gun is 10 times the sentence of rape without a gun, does that mean that the poor woman received less damage without a gun held to her head than with? Isnít it worse knowing that there are no weapons applied and you feel weak and are trembling to break free but canít because of the overwhelming power of the man? This is just sick and retarded, to justify actions of some inhuman men that canít get any action otherwise!!!!!!!! For Godís sake drug dealers serve longer sentences than rapists!

Now in terms of prison Vava, letís see what you mentionedÖ.

"That's 25 years of 3-meals a day, TV time, exercise everyday, free health-care and prescription drugs, cigarette allowance, conjugal visits, access to libraries, computers, internet, education by correspondence...."

Itís funny but you know what it sounds like to me? Communism, yes all of the things mentioned above. But you know what both of them have in common, the most important aspect for human existence without which you lose your individuality, your sense of purpose and live in constant fear, THAT IS LACK OF FREEDOM!!!

The trade off in that luxurious lifestyle, as you indirectly implied, is that 80% of the men that do get out or are there, develop insomnia, have constant horrifying flashbacks, catch deadly diseases and when they get out they have no use to the world and have very little chance of regaining their normal life back! Everything has 2 sides to it, if you see only one side you neglect the truth.

Please read this article.

CENTRAL PARK JOGGER CASE IS REOPENED AFTER NEW DNA EVIDENCE SHOWS FIVE AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND LATINO YOUTHS WHO WERE IMPRISONED FOR YEARS DID NOT COMMIT THE RAPE
Attorneys for the original defendants in the infamous central park jogger case held a press conference yesterday calling for a reversal of the convictions now that new evidence has emerged.
It was a case that rocked the city, inflaming racial tensions in New York and around the country. In April 1989 a young white jogger in Central Park was raped, beaten and left for dead. Five African-American and Latino teenagers were convicted. They served many years in jail; the last just got out of prison several weeks ago after thirteen years. At the time, the headlines screamed, ĎWolf Packí, ĎWilding,í ĎTeenagers singing wilding songs in prison.í
It may well have been a deciding factor in the New York State Legislatureís decision to re-establish the stateís death penalty. Shortly after the attack Donald Trump took out full paid ads in all the New York papers calling to ďBring Back the Death PenaltyĒ and referring to the young defendants in the jogger case as good candidates for execution.
In news that was barely reported just this last January, convicted rapist Matias Reyes unexpectedly confessed to the crime. He said he did it alone. Several months later, DNA tests showed that Reyes ďproved beyond questionĒ that he raped the jogger, according to a law enforcement official quoted in the New York Times.

#86 Sip

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 10:48 PM

I think it is unwise to suggest the death penalty for rape. If you have rape and murder having the same penalty, then what would the deterrant for the rapist be from killing his victim? It is fairly obvious that a dead victim can't testify anyway and the rape is already committed ...

#87 Anileve

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 11:04 PM

I think it is unwise to suggest the death penalty for rape. If you have rape and murder having the same penalty, then what would the deterrant for the rapist be from killing his victim? It is fairly obvious that a dead victim can't testify anyway and the rape is already committed ...

Very good point Seap. And I have to add that suggesting Death Penalty is unwise all together. If you read the article I posted you'll see the danger in that. If the Penalty was imposed those innocent teenagers would have been executed, and later the real criminal would confess the crime. What would that make the justice system?

#88 Anileve

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 11:11 PM

Ani - I think I've seen you mention his in another thread. Do you more info about the film or the cast? A URL, maybe? I'd love to know more - sounds very interesting.
Thanks.

I adored this movie, that is why I think I plug it everywhere. :D

Here are the links Vava:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0315733

http://movies.go.com...s/21grams_2003/

I don't suggest you read too much about it, just go see it. I guarantee you will like it, you have to just feel this one, words will not do it justice.

#89 vava

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 11:19 PM

Thanks for the links Ani! I'm off to bed now :yawn: but I'll look at your Central Park Jogger later sometime.... And BTW I never read too much about a flick I'm going to see - expectations have everything to do with your level of enjoyment.

#90 Sip

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 11:28 PM

I have to add that suggesting Death Penalty is unwise all together. If you read the article I posted you'll see the danger in that. If the Penalty was imposed those innocent teenagers would have been executed, and later the real criminal would confess the crime. What would that make the justice system?

That part I don't agree with. I generally don't think general policy should be made based on special cases... will there be "false positives" for death penalty. Sure. Nothing is fool-proof in life. The question is cost vs. benefit ... and if you are going to tell me that even a single human life is "infinitely valuable" (i.e. we can't tolaerate any false positives for death penalty), then I don't agree. :)

#91 gurgen

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 09:40 AM

Letís explore this statement. I am sure that you donít want to murder all criminal, irrelevant of their crimes, thus prisons should still exit. Now if you consider this true, then it is also true that to keep the system alive the Gov. has to delegate a certain portion of your taxes towards the funding of prisons. You and I have no say in which prisoners we would like to fund, or which pothole we would like to be fixed with our tax money. The Gov. decides that for us, itís a public sector, now if you ran your own private prison than you might decide whoíll get fried and who will have the desert for being good. Other than that extreme systems always have loopholes and to play with the possibility of executing an innocent individual is very dangerous.

Living with your crimes is a severe punishment on itís own, being executed never fulfills the prophecy of Karma. Just watch 21 Grams and perhaps you might understand.

1) The really sick ones, who kill and rape just for fun, confess most of the time, because they are proud of their work.

2) I don't know about America exactly but here in Holland murderers are very often labelled ' criminally insane' and put in a clinic. For about four years.
One man released from such a clinic killed another person the SAME NIGHT he was released. I don't think we should be running this risk.

3) Sure innocent people die. But innocent people are also in prison for 30 years. I think this scars them more than death.

#92 Anileve

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 10:25 PM

3) Sure innocent people die. But innocent people are also in prison for 30 years. I think this scars them more than death.

Gurgen jan, perhaps I might be wrong since I am not an expert in the Psychology of the dead, but I donít think that the dead could feel the impact of the scarsÖ Death is the ending road, that is as severe as it can get.

I think if the choice was to be made between serving a 30 year sentence for a crime not committed and being executed, a person would chose 30 years.

#93 Sip

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 10:29 PM

If I were over 40, I'd chose death, unless I could get a internet connection in prison.

#94 Dan

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 10:33 PM

If I were over 40, I'd chose death, unless I could get a internet connection in prison.

lol me too, Sip. :D

#95 vava

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 09:01 AM

If I were over 40, I'd chose death, unless I could get a internet connection in prison.

That's the sad part - you can.

#96 gurgen

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 11:00 AM

See?

Most people whould choose death instead of 40 years in prison.
Some thing are worse than death, e.g. spending 40 years in fear with the worst scum on earth.
But then again opinions will always differ on this issue.

Edited by gurgen, 10 December 2003 - 11:01 AM.


#97 sev-mard

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 12:38 PM

I think i'd mentally crack doing 40 years, i'm only 26! That concept is unfathomable. I'd interested though in the psyche of prisioners doing "Life" the human mind has the ability to adapt to the most adverse of conditions and just make them reality.

#98 Sasun

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 12:52 PM

See?

Most people whould choose death instead of 40 years in prison.

not really. how come prisoners with life sentence don't kill themselves? or how come they would 'mind' being killed ?

#99 sev-mard

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 01:04 PM

Because even if you're not scared of death per se, you still don't know what it is/going to happen, so why rush into it? <_<
Thats what I think, they just make that Life their reality and deal with it.

#100 Dan

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 04:40 PM

w.r.t initial question about death penalty... i'm not decided on the issue, so i say give the prisoner the choice of death or life imprisonment... or something along those lines.. just my 2 cents.




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