77 replies to this topic

[Twilight Bark]

It gets on my nerves when Armenian guys ... [all sorts of goofiness and evil]

It's true that Armenian guys often are insufferable jerks. However, it gets on my nerves when the Armenian women, who in the whole are responsible for raising those jerks complain about their collective creations. And no, "what about the father" won't cut it, because he is also mostly raised by his mother. The solution lies with how Armenian boys are raised. To the extent that the Armenian culture is an isolated, distinct entity (which of course it is not *), the first move inescapably has to come from the females, and most relevantly from the mothers. Raise your boys well.

* The other, much more likely factor is the simple absorption of new values from the host cultures, which these days offer a less chauvinistic role for men. They come with their bag of issues, but that's a different discussion.

Edited by Twilight Bark, 24 August 2004 - 06:00 PM.

[Maral]

It's true that Armenian guys often are insufferable jerks. However, it gets on my nerves when the Armenian women, who in the whole are responsible for raising those jerks complain about their collective creations. And no, "what about the father" won't cut it, because he is also mostly raised by his mother. The solution lies with how Armenian boys are raised. To the extent that the Armenian culture is an isolated, distinct entity (which of course it is not *), the first move inescapably has to come from the females, and most relevantly from the mothers. Raise your boys well.

* The other, much more likely factor is the simple absorption of new values from the host cultures, which these days offer a less chauvinistic role for men. They come with their bag of issues, but that's a different discussion.

So how long do you think adults can blame their parents for the way they were raised?Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Maral]

well said...

thank you thank you thank you...you may throw flowers in my path now

[Twilight Bark]

So how long do you think adults can blame their parents for the way they were raised?

Forever.

It's Baliozianesque shallowness to imply "stupid people should be smart, bad people should be good, jerks should be nice, writers should be rich". Yes, of course. But how?

Now, don't think that I am unaware of the inconsistency in what I am saying (as I implied), which amounts to "Armenian mothers should (magically) become better in raising their boys". What I am warning against is the easy, shallow, blame-games. That's all.

[Bakersfieldian]

I think most people have really unrealistic expectations, especially when it comes to wives/husbands.

I have discussed this with my Priest (he's always trying to set me up.) many times and he always reinforces the main things to look for are;

Trust
Do you get along as friends?
Same goals

He has also told many of us (yes, in front of his wife) that he didn't feel in love with his wife when he got married.

It seems to have worked well for him.

They have 8 children and another on the way.

For me,

I really think the virgin "qualification" would be way down the list.

As long as they're not some whore, a few prior boyfriends is a good idea.

Once again, it primarilly comes down to compatability.

[Maral]

The search for virginal wives is not a mothers issue,but the sons.

[koko]

"It's true that Armenian guys often are insufferable jerks. However, it gets on my nerves when the Armenian women, who in the whole are responsible for raising those jerks complain about their collective creations. And no, "what about the father" won't cut it, because he is also mostly raised by his mother. The solution lies with how Armenian boys are raised. To the extent that the Armenian culture is an isolated, distinct entity (which of course it is not *), the first move inescapably has to come from the females, and most relevantly from the mothers. Raise your boys well."




wait a minute! youre telling us that the ameniian woman are responsible for raising yerks , do they have the entire responsibliity? or could it be that the father and the mother have both equal responsiblitity on how to raise their children

Edited by koko, 24 August 2004 - 06:55 PM.

[Azat]

It's true that Armenian guys often are insufferable jerks. However, it gets on my nerves when the Armenian women, who in the whole are responsible for raising those jerks complain about their collective creations. And no, "what about the father" won't cut it, because he is also mostly raised by his mother. The solution lies with how Armenian boys are raised. To the extent that the Armenian culture is an isolated, distinct entity (which of course it is not *), the first move inescapably has to come from the females, and most relevantly from the mothers. Raise your boys well.

* The other, much more likely factor is the simple absorption of new values from the host cultures, which these days offer a less chauvinistic role for men. They come with their bag of issues, but that's a different discussion.

AMEN to that...

[Twilight Bark]

The search for virginal wives is not a mothers issue,but the sons.

To say that implies that there is something genetically wrong with the sons, and they are beyond help, and mothers can do nothing to prevent their boys from growing up to become self-absorbed overgrown babies. Is that gene particular to the Armenian genome? Maybe we are a distinct subspecies Homo Sapiens Sapiens Armenicus.

[Twilight Bark]

wait a minute...youre telling us that the ameniian woman are responsible for raising yerks , do they have the entire responsibliity? or could it be that the father and the mother have both equal responsiblitity on how to raise their children.

I thought I anticipated and addressed that exact issue.

[koko]

This is a family issue. YOu cant blame only the mother, or only the father. it takes TWO to tango, as it is often said and this is the case in raising children..

Edited by koko, 24 August 2004 - 07:00 PM.

[nairi]

TB, I think the point is that boys/men are naturally screwed up. There's nothing any parent can do but hope for some moderate luck.

[Twilight Bark]

This is a family issue. It has nothing to do with the mother, or the father. it takes TWO to tango, as it is often said and this is the case in raising children..

Let's go over it again.

If:
Father=he can't be bothered with the lowly task of being involved in the nitty gritty
Mother=left alone by the father to raise her sons; appears to raise replicas of the father (who is not involved in the business)

Then:
The mother, who is doing the tango alone, has to change something in how she raises her boys, since it won't be coming from the father, who has been raised and trained to be uninvolved in such lowly activities. (that's where the tango fails, you see)


The virtuous cycle of ever-better males would never take off without a coherent change in Armenian maternal attitudes towards their boys. That's assuming that Armenian culture is isolated, which of course it is not. Then we can all sit on our butts, and assimilation (in the diaspora) and globalization (in the homeland) will take care of the whole thing.

[Twilight Bark]

TB, I think the point is that boys/men are naturally screwed up. There's nothing any parent can do but hope for some moderate luck.

Thanks for that assessment, nairi. Does that square with your cross-cultural observations? Since you are implying that there is nothing particularly different in the behavior and attitudes of Armenian men, the whole issue is meaningless. Not only Armenian men are beyond help, but they are not particularly different from the men of other cultures. No reason for any complaints then.

[nairi]

Yes, I mean all men. And women if I may add. We're all screwed up. Some of us are just better at hiding it. Who said that? I agree with it.

[Twilight Bark]

We're all screwed up.

Well, yes. But that is also an information-free statement, since we are comiserating about relative screwed-upness.

[gevo27]

BTW..this whole issue with men wanting virgins for wives is a control issue!
So get over it and quick

Not in all cases. Some people still want to have what is called a relationship... not a marriage in vain due to sexual immorality.

[nairi]

ARGH!!!!! You're so frustrating Gevo! I wish you would vanish!!! Yes, everyone has the right to have an opinion, but your opinion is based on NOTHING. You have NEVER had a relationship involving sex, you immediately jump to the conclusion that people who have sex before marriage live in sex-clubs and night-clubs, and that a loving relationship is impossible unless you're married. Go away already!!!! Or should I ask: how the hell did your mother raise you?????

[Sip]

Interesting ... so I guess thanks to TB, we have reached a classic chicken and the egg problem on our hands, except in this case we are trying to make the chickens lay eggs that are not going to be as screwed up on the relative screwedupness scale as the original eggs ... yah I think I got it

[THOTH]

ARGH!!!!! You're so frustrating Gevo! I wish you would vanish!!! Yes, everyone has the right to have an opinion, but your opinion is based on NOTHING. You have NEVER had a relationship involving sex, you immediately jump to the conclusion that people who have sex before marriage live in sex-clubs and night-clubs, and that a loving relationship is impossible unless you're married. Go away already!!!! Or should I ask: how the hell did your mother raise you?????

Right on Nairi - exactly - you hit the nail on the head!