98 replies to this topic

[MJ]

An email I received from a colleague today:

...

Since I already invested 2 silent hours listening to our round-and-round discussion Friday, let me invest 5 more minutes to write something here you may not have heard already:

In the 1950s most US Jews were not very sympathetic to Israel, so US Jewish behavioral scientists did a series of mostly unpublished surveys to profile "patterns of identification among American Jews"--religion / nationality/ culture/ statehood...? I reviewed these simple yet powerful studies, and saw how they were used to track and even shape Jews' and Gentiles' views on the value of Israel.

Soon after Armenian statehood in 1991, I suggested and then was invited to meet with a wealthy US Armenian leader, and spent 3 hours discussing the modest cost in money and time of doing these same surveys among US Armenians. ...No follow-up, nor even a thank-you letter. Of course, as you realize, US Armenians have uneven knowledge and opinions on Armenia which beg to be studied statistically, but if any of the well-endowed Hye groups has done this the past 12 years, I know nothing of it. Of course this is the next sound step for those who want to generate US support for a democratic Armenia, but a step that may never be taken.

[Twilight Bark]

Such studies would of course be very useful. But it doesn't seem like the "Armenian" way of doing things (which tend to be more "instinctive" than "scientific"), does it? Both American and Jewish cultures emphasize "rational" mode of thinking significantly more than the Armenian culture does, and such studies would appear as natural, self-evidently useful tools to them. In contrast, it is not uncommon for our "leader" types to not be very interested in other Armenians' world views or circumstances, since they already know everything that needs to be known. What's the point of choreographing with other people when they should fall in line with the one that knows the way. And if they don't, they should be dropped like a rock; they are not needed. If this mentality feels familiar, one should not look hard and far for the explanation of what's in that e-mail.

[Lev7]

Very interesting thread and very interesting replies. In my opinion Diaspora Armenians are more Armenian inside than Hayastanci Armenians. When I first came to U.S. at the age of 15 I used to think the opposite and used to criticize Diaspora Armenians. But this changed a lot as I saw how much the Diaspora Armenians do to preserve our Armenian culture and how much aid they send to Armenia, which sadly goes to the pockets of the government officials. I was amazed how an Armenian family donated $1.8 million dollars to the university I go to (Clark University), so they would start a course on Armenian Genocide. Now we also have a course on Armenian History. I could never imagine a Hayastanci Armenian donating that much money for Armenian causes.

I know there are lots of differences between the Hayastanci and Diaspora Armenians, but we should not forget that we originated from the same ancestors and that we have a common goal, to preserve our rich culture and help our motherland, that is run by corrupted people. I would just love to see the Armenian government to be handed over to Diaspora Armenians. Armenia could of achieved more, if those deadbeats weren't sitting on top.

Anyways, I just want to say thank you to all the Diaspora Armenians for preserving our culture and helping Armenia, even though many of you never been to Armenia.

Edited by Lev7, 22 September 2003 - 08:34 PM.

[Harut]

It's not every regular Khachik Khachikian's responsibility to preserve a culture, teach history, or play in political games. we have a government, we have governmental and non-governmental institutions that are designated for those purposes.
unfortunately, many diasporans don't want to accept this fact (the existance of the government) and gather around it. instead, they try to accomplish those things individually or in small (fanatical) groups, which most of the times leads to even greater disasters.

this is how i see it.

[Nvard]

heeeeeeey, we're all Armenians after all

[Lev7]

heeeeeeey, we're all Armenians after all

exactly

[Armen]

http://www.azg.am/st...&num=2003110101

Country of dreams?

BREAKING THE CHAINS OF ARMENIAN SLAVERY

"The sun's ferocious beam could be felt upon our backs as our tenth hour working straight came. The gallon of water we had brought with us now completely used up, we were going into a state of hallucinatory fever. The boss yelled at us to continue work and not stop for breaks." Sounds like an excerpt from a slave's accounts in a plantation in the 1800's? In fact it does, however, this excerpt is from my own experiences working for a "fellow Armenian" in Los Angeles in the year 2003.

Coming to America as an immigrant, I had moved here for a brighter future, and a feeling that In California, Armenians cared for each other and wanted to move forward and progress together. I came with the belief that Armenians stuck together, and worked hard to help each other out in times of hardship. What I found was that there is no Armenian pride left. Armenian Business owners see their Armenian compatriots who have come to America with no documents, and in need of jobs, as a way to profit from their disadvantageous position. They hire fellow Armenians at below minimum wages, and subject them to excruciatingly brutal work conditions, and long hours of heavy work. They are not poor businessmen, who cannot afford to pay higher wages. They are in fact, very wealthy and own several homes and expensive cars; all due to their high profits obtained from tax evasion, and low wages paid to their workers. These businessmen have become wealthy by the blood and sweat of other Armenians. I am compelled to tell the truth and expose these sick bastards, as they have no care towards the livelihood of other Armenians and only wish to become wealthy and approach their mind conceived "godliness".

One such shop I worked in was a marble and granite shop. When entering this dark and dusty shop, pockets of the sun's rays glistened off the dilapidated machinery. The rat infested "sweat shop" was truly a grotesque sight in itself. Within the shop, there were as many as 10 employees at one time. Later, many had left, but the most there had ever been was about 10 workers. About 5 of the ten workers, would be working within the shop while the other 5 or so would be working outside the shop in homes laying tiles or installing counter tops. One man was appointed to cutting the huge slabs of marble or granite with a massive saw that was operated electrically. The other men would glue edges onto the counter tops while others grinded the edges round and polished them. The team I was appointed to would then load the huge counter tops onto a truck, and head out to homes where we installed them. Now it is easy to imagine the extreme weight of these counter tops, as they are made of rock. The boss would only send two guys to transport and install these counter tops. One time my partner and I were sent to this job where the counter top was this L-shaped mammoth of slab, and the location where we were to install it was down these flight of stairs. Despite numerous protests to the boss to bring more helpers to move the slab, he refused and forced us to go alone. Now, he knew that it took 5 guys to barely load the slab onto the truck. So how did he expect two guys to move it down a flight of stairs? Well it wouldn't have been profitable for him to send 5 guys to a job where he was charging so little. You see, he didn't have the business sense of making customers happy by quality service which most people would happily pay more for. The way he made profits was like this. He would charge customers half the market price for such services that any other legitimate company would have charged. How then does he make a profit? Well, he would pay us very low wages, a daily rate. Now he didn't care about the hours we worked. Our normal day should have been from 8am to 5pm. But when he paid us daily, he meant daily. He would want us to work 18 hours just so he could get his job done and make more. The more days it takes us to get a job done, the more he would have to pay us the less he would make. But it is inhuman to work such long hours and at such a heavy job. Well, my partner and I were lucky enough to find two other construction workers that day, and the 4 of us barely made it down those stairs. Given a normal 8 hour work day, people have to take a 30 min break at least and a lot of places also a 15 min coffee break. Now the days we worked until 11pm, (sometimes 1 am) we had only taken a 15 min break. If the boss ever saw us resting for 5 min, he would yell at us and tell us to get to work. We were lucky that he wouldn't always be at the work sites, so then we could have taken longer breaks, but sometimes he would drive over to check up on us. Many days he would stay watching over us and force us to work longer hours. By law, you are allowed to work overtime but no more than 4 hours. Also, the wage you receive for over time is one and a half times your normal hourly wage. We would get the same daily amount no matter how long we worked. I for example, started working at 40 dollars a day. After 4 months, I was making 50 dollars a day. Many times I had come home dead tired at 12 am, too tired to cook my dinner or even enjoy a nice evening with friends. This slave driver of a boss, also made people work Sundays, (normal work week was 6 days for us) but I took a stand and refused. I was punished indirectly by other worse duty jobs.

In terms of health and human rights issues, we were abused under all the factions. Some days I would work in the shop, where the boss wanted us to get into a garbage bin that was dangerously over filled, and was too heavy to transport by the dump trucks. This garbage bin was full of the decomposing remains of haunta virus infested rats, and when I refused to come near any rat without a respirator, the boss just made a joke and called me a chicken. It took every nerve in my body not to frag (abbr. verb for “fragmentation grenade”) this evil man, but I didn't want to be caught by the police after and put in jail then deported. Eventually I left this job however, and found other jobs with Armenians.

The next job I took while working in California, was at a dry cleaners. This was a well-established business that brought many affluent customers. The business was owned and operated by an old Armenian couple. This seemed like a heaven sent job, since I didn't have to contend with harmful dust or back breaking labor. I was wrong. They had me working at this job for the whole week. I'd arrive at 10am and leave the store at 9pm. I would have to sort the clothes according to these numbers and colors attached to them. Seems light enough a job doesn't it? Well it would be if you only worked 8 hours at it. But the job was an assembly line job and breaks were a joke. The flow of clothes to be sorted kept me on my feet at all times and I constantly had to run from one position on the line to another. The man's wife was a crazy cross eyed woman who always yelled in a high pitched shrill that would awaken the dead. She would never talk in a normal voice. She would only yell. After my first week on the job I went to the boss to discuss my hours and work out a schedule and wage. He started talking to me very rudely and said, "Look here. This is a 24-hour business, and you are going to work here everyday. You will work here for two months straight every single day until 9pm. After two months, you will get every third Sunday off."

I was surprised by the tone he conveyed especially since he was trying to impose slavery in the 21st century! I told him I could not work such hours, and every single day since I have to study. I take college at home since I cannot attend a university here nor do I have enough money to. I study from the Internet based colleges. I still will receive a nationally accredited degree, so the prestige of an expensive college doesn't make a difference to me since I will be working in a good job once I become a citizen. I tried to reason with him as to why I couldn't work a normal shift. He just grunted over and over again how this is a 24 hour business and such. The concept of rationale did not reach his mindset. I wasn't even asking to work part time, I was just asking to work a normal 40 hour work week. Well the reason why he wanted to have me working there every day was again a matter of personal gain. Him and his wife didn't care that I was a young fellow Armenian new to this country looking for a start to my life. They just saw me as a way to save money on wages and become rich. Might I note that everyone there was receiving sub standard wages and working brutally long hours.

To conclude this writing, I would like to say that I have lost a lot of faith in the Armenian brotherhood. I feel the old honorable ways of the Armenians I was brought up to believe, were all washed away by the capitalist greed embedded within these business owners. They will stop at nothing to become rich, and even use their own people who are in need of a hand, to gain the riches they so desire. The nationalism I used to feel for being Armenian has changed drastically. I still feel that I am Armenian, but I seriously doubt the motives of most of the business owners out there. This wasn't an isolated incident. Just go to Glendale and North Hollywood and see all the Armenian shops there. See how many hours a day the poor Armenian immigrants work, and the miniscule wages they receive. They have families to support but little do their bosses care. We are led to believe that slavery was abolished more than a century ago. Why then, does the use of slavery drive the American economy forward from the shadows of horrific sweatshops?

Armen Garabedian

[America-Hye]

These people are an-eres, just like my conservative relatives who have cut my brother and I out of our inheritance, using their legal skills. They all have multiple mansions to each family and yet are greedy for more. The only good conservative is a dead conservative, politically and power-wise that is. I would like to put them all in sweatshops.

[Sip]

Major cleanup done. Sorry it had to come to this but there was no other solution that I could see.

[hagopn]

Wow!, how wonderfully and inquisitively confused (and horribly uninformed) a people we are in the "Anglophonized" (new word?) sector of our Diaspora.

I like the following phrase so much, that I used it as the title of a mini-essay.

"ARMENIA IS NOT MY COUNTRY."

This type of psychological conviction of "being foreign to one's self" was represented so very well by an eloquent "lover of Iran." Although I don't necessarily see anything wrong with having feelings of affection for one's birthplace, there are certain psychological dimensions to address.

This individual (who is apparently half-Iranian?, who knows, not that it's relevant) has assumed the role of the perfect "mahajir," (arabic for "nomad," "exile," or "immigrant," as the Arabic term seems most appropriate). With the typical phrase of "USA is where I earn my daily bread," he has exemplified the notion of "Our hats, hon gats" (in its western Armenian form roughly translated as "where there's bread, there is homestead.") The individual loves Iran and the memory of his (apparently pleasant) surroundings, his country of birth, and loves the Iranian people and their demeanor.

In any case, this young man's (childhood) description of Iran sounds as though it comes from a "chatma mama" mother (who hates Armenian men from Armenia due to her dominatrix personality - typical among Iranian Armenian women of the Shah Era's "baby boomer" generation, chrnologically speaking). The "Chatma mama" (an Indo-Iranian adaptation to Fatma Mama) has apparently passed on this information to her as-of-yet-too-young a child to remember the actual landscape upon which the Armenian identity has struggled to survive in Iran eversince Shah Abbas burned and churned them down to Isfahan (using their piled corpses as a bridge over the Arax river). Nevertheless, this young man's "Iran" sounds like a very pretty fairy tale from a childhood dream.

One thing to add: When you speak to the Iranian Armenian men in "isolation," meaning without their wives or mothers present, you will get a more realistic description from men who are very critical of Muslim and Jewish Iranians. They tell horrifying tales of persecution, intimidation, business fraud, and bureacratic badgering for being Christian men. After all, they were the ones to provide the "Mercedes Benz" for their (typically demanding) women to show off. I even have numerous accounts of non-chalant infidelity on behalf of some wealthier "liberated" women in Iran who had fully exploited the relative political weakness of their supplicant Christian husbands in a (fanatically) Muslim dominated speudo-liberal society.

A typical saying from an Iranian Armenian who lived in Iran as an adult male is: "Even if you receive an once of pure gold from an Iranian, don't take it because it will melt a hole in your pocket, and you will lose whatever else you had in yuor pocket as well." Another typical saying among the adult male Iranian Armenians is: "An Iranian will rape you and then, after giving you a rose, will proceed to write a poem about your lovely features." Apparently there is some truth to it, because the consensus is stratling, but mostly among the men. Keep in mind that Iranian Armenians differ from the rest of "Armeniandom" in this one fascinating attribute: The women dominate, and the women equality hate domineering men. You wil, for this reason, see a great percentage of Iranian-Armenian women (irrationally) hate the "Ashkhal Hayastantsi."

The consequent (and near-total) disassociation from the "Fatherland" (Armenians use the term Hayrenik to put more salt on the anti-feminist wound) is, in my opinino, the direct result of this "dominatrix" mother type so prevalent among Iranian Armenians.

I must add, however, that not in the least do the majority of Iranian-Armenians fit this mold. Many are indeed very strong families with strong nationalist convictions. And it is indeed very interesting that nationalist families have strong fathers, even among Iranian Armenians. By far the most interesting phenomenon is that nationalist-minded Armenians, no matter where they live, always think alike, have pretty much the same ponts of reference, and they almost always are repsectful of each other. The issue, therefore, from what observations I have done, is not of "conservatism" or "liberalism" or of "passports," but of being conscious with long-term versus unconscious with short-term memories. The best immunity against such "compartmetalization" of our nation is our nationalism itself, which, again, predates that of "enlightened" and Rome-battered Europe by at least 16 centuries.


There is much to be said, but I wil leave it at that for now.

Edited by hagopn, 26 November 2003 - 07:56 PM.

[hagopn]

BREAKING THE CHAINS OF ARMENIAN SLAVERY
Armenian Business owners see their Armenian compatriots who have come to America with no documents, and in need of jobs, as a way to profit from their disadvantageous position. They hire fellow Armenians at below minimum wages, and subject them to excruciatingly brutal work conditions, and long hours of heavy work. They are not poor businessmen, who cannot afford to pay higher wages. They are in fact, very wealthy and own several homes and expensive cars; all due to their high profits obtained from tax evasion, and low wages paid to their workers. These businessmen have become wealthy by the blood and sweat of other Armenians. I am compelled to tell the truth and expose these sick bastards, as they have no care towards the livelihood of other Armenians and only wish to become wealthy and approach their mind conceived "godliness".

Of course such exploitation is typical, especially among those who have absolutely no (sincere) nationalist (and Christian, for that matter) principles. The entire jewelry manufacturnig and low-cost garment industries are dependent upon such "sweat-shop" conditions, and no one will speak out against them. The diasporan "parties" such as the ARF, ADL, or otherwise have never truly taken leadership positions at the grass roots, except when it came time to rake in the bucks for asome sub-standard school. Why would the exploiters care if in their entire lives they have been told that no one is accountable for Armenians, and there will be no repercussions in exploiting and persecuting Armenians?

I tell, precisely because of this is why it is absolutely necessary to be truthful about history. We have yet to be honest about our plight and history, and we always absolve ourselves, as individuals and as (any given) collective, of responsbility. Especially those who are "comfortable" with their dis-association from the Armenian identity or the Armenian statehood, for example, have serious issue to work inside their own psyche. They are in denial in that they are part of the problem and not the solution.

[arshakuni]

Sorry guys,but there is no true armenian who hasn`t lived in Armenia.Easy as that.Being Armenian is not only knowing how to say hello in Armenian or visiting Armenian parties from time to time,but being a part of entire nation,with it`s history ,language,culture and so on.And you can`t achieve it no matter how eager you are by living anywhere else but Armenia.No offense,I`ve spent my childhood in Europe,and going back to Armenia was a disaster of a lifetime at the time for me.The first 2 years that I spent in school were a real nightmare for me.I hated Armenia and Armenians.Complete disappointment.But now,looking back at this period I`m glad I had it in my life.Because it was followed by the university education in Armenia,which is in my opinion ,on a much higher level that the one I`m getting now in United Kingdom.I studied the history and the culture of my nation and I was proud of it .People in Armenia ,no matter how geghaci they seem to you ,are of a much higher personal qualities ,than the majority of diaspora.Getting on with them is not an easy thing to do ,but they are the real armenians .Because they are the ones who bare the difficulties of their motherland,they are the ones who fought for Artsax,they are the ones who serve in armenian natonal army and protect the borders of it,they pay taxes in Armenia,not in U.S.. They speak armenian every day,they learn armenian in their schools,they compose armenian music,they write books in armenian .
What I`m trying to say is that you`re not the ones to judge the nation you`re not a part of any more.I`m not saying that it`s your fault,or anything,I`d be one of you had I staid to live abroad .Now I`ve left my motherland again,I`m a student in United Kingdom,but all I`m thinking of is my country and iy`s people,and no matter what my parents say or do(they want me to stay here)I`m going back straight after graduation.
KECCE HAYASTAN@

[hagopn]

arshakuni wrote:

Sorry guys,but there is no true armenian who hasn`t lived in Armenia.Easy as that.Being Armenian is not only knowing how to say hello in Armenian or visiting Armenian parties from time to time,but being a part of entire nation,with it`s history ,language,culture and so on.And you can`t achieve it no matter how eager you are by living anywhere else but Armenia.

I don't agree. You CAN be Armenian, but you cannot possibly hope to pass on your Armenian identity in "cultures" that impsoe their own mainstream (or coutner-cultural) ideas onto you. IN the west you are told not be different while having been told you should be an "individual." I have often been told I am more Armenian in my demeanor that most Armenians from Armenia BY Armenians from Armenia... ---

People in Armenia ,no matter how geghaci they seem to you ,are of a much higher personal qualities ,than the majority of diaspora.Getting on with them is not an easy thing to do ,but they are the real armenians

Yes, absolutely agree that the so-called "geghaci" label used in the pejorative sense is a sign of materialist and superficial idiots. That's besides the point.

However, I haven't seen that they are "hard to get along with" if you are open and honest with them, those who are open and honest themselves... They are rugged and straight forward bunch in most cases, those "gehgaci," and I love them for it! I loved them so much, I married one of them! ---

Because they are the ones who bare the difficulties of their motherland,they are the ones who fought for Artsax,they are the ones who serve in armenian natonal army and protect the borders of it,they pay taxes in Armenia,not in U.S.. They speak armenian every day,they learn armenian in their schools,they compose armenian music,they write books in armenian .

Well, we bore the difficulty of maintaining our identity, and we also did bear the burden of organizing and financing our own education in Armenian. Some of us did go there to serve the Army, and some of us did not have that opportunity. I served the US Air Force in my day, and I was in the US military when the conflict over there began. It would have been an honor to serve the Armenian armed forces, but politically I am a cynic. I didn't agree with the "rush rush" indpendence march, and my suspicions turned out to be true.

In any case, there are many ways to fight for your nation and sole state protecting and perpetuating your national identity: For example, I consider historian Martiros Gavoukjian to be a national hero. It's besides the point that he was from Baghdad, but he did participate in the building of Armenia as an architect who has designed numerous public buildings and living quarter projects. But his greatest contribution, in my opinion, is the work in ancient Armenain history that he did. He is listed as Mardiros Kavoukjian at narek.com. Go check him out...

In other words, he fought equally hard and did dedicate his life to that cause, the cause of presenting pre-Christian Armenian history in as accurate a format as possible. When you see Turks presenting Urartu as "a Turkic Kingdom," then you can see at least part of the value of his work. He pioneered it, becuase he was INDEPENDENT from the Soviet pressure to conform to Diakonov's theories that Turks use to their advantrage.

What I`m trying to say is that you`re not the ones to judge the nation you`re not a part of any more.

Oh, I see. You are directing this to those wo debase the "hayastantsi" or hayastan herself. Then I am in agreement with you, and only wish to add that you not commit the same crime of painting everyone OUTSIDE of Hayastan wih the same brush, something that you obviously don't like when done to Armenians INSIDE Hayastan.

Sirov,

Hagop

p.s. Unfortunately the "exploitation" business is true across the board, no matter where the Armenian exploiter is from. Those from Beirut, Tehran, Moscow, Yerevan, or elsewhere, they all exploit their fellow Armenians in precarious position of having no residency status. It looks as though Bush's "amnesty" act might change that situation. I don't know what the particulars of that law are, but I would imagine that offering amnesty might tip the balance infavor of the currently exploited. At least I hope that will be the case.

Edited by hagopn, 12 January 2004 - 01:54 AM.

[Davo0074_NL]

Armenians are Armenians! Ofcourse there are differences between diaspora Armenians and Hayastanci Armenians. But in fact this is also not true because there are many differences between a diaspora Armenian from Iraq and a diaspora Armenian from Syria or Turkey or US or Europe. And it`s our mission and duty to take all good qualities of each group and turn them in to a common thing. I mean isn`t this exactly what the Turks tried to do to us? They wanted to kill us and to devide us. They wanted to make us an enemy of our nation. HAYASTAN is our country Diaspora or NON-Diaspora, Armenian is our language Eastern or Western and Hay Arakelakan Yegexeci is our Religion. So we should be not so keen on the differences but on what we have in common. We should be re-united and show the world that we are strong. Think of the poetry of William Saroyan, when to armenians meet in the dessert after being tortured, after Armenia is destroyed, We can be sure they will create a new Armenia.

Armenia is a geografical place, a small spot on the map but a huge place inb the hart of every armenian. Like the song of Aram Asatrian says: Ashxarum inchqan HAY ka, ajdkan el ka YEREVAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DAVO

[Lev7]

Armenians are Armenians! Ofcourse there are differences between diaspora Armenians and Hayastanci Armenians. But in fact this is also not true because there are many differences between a diaspora Armenian from Iraq and a diaspora Armenian from Syria or Turkey or US or Europe. And it`s our mission and duty to take all good qualities of each group and turn them in to a common thing. I mean isn`t this exactly what the Turks tried to do to us? They wanted to kill us and to devide us. They wanted to make us an enemy of our nation. HAYASTAN is our country Diaspora or NON-Diaspora, Armenian is our language Eastern or Western and Hay Arakelakan Yegexeci is our Religion. So we should be not so keen on the differences but on what we have in common. We should be re-united and show the world that we are strong. Think of the poetry of William Saroyan, when to armenians meet in the dessert after being tortured, after Armenia is destroyed, We can be sure they will create a new Armenia.

Armenia is a geografical place, a small spot on the map but a huge place inb the hart of every armenian. Like the song of Aram Asatrian says: Ashxarum inchqan HAY ka, ajdkan el ka YEREVAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DAVO

What a great post, almost made me cry Could not of said better myself.

[Yerevanian]

Not every Armenian is Armenian! No matter where you live even if you have Armenian blood that doesn’t qualify you to be Armenian. Yes, you are called Armenian but you have to feel one! You have to be proud of every mistake your country made, you have to cry every time you hear “Dle Yaman”…. Who cares if your parents are Armenian, if you call yourself “American” or “Canadian”, then forget about Armenia!
And I agree with Arshakuhi you have to live there to be one of them!
Couple years ago I attended Armenian class for high school credits, and I was amazed! Students could hardly speak the language! Most of the couldn’t read or write! How can you call them Armenians? For one year all I learned in that class is that Turks killed Armenians and must pay! That’s not all of our history! We were only learning about Hay Dat, like we never had anything else to remember! And when I asked the teacher to stop already with the genocide and teach this kids to speak properly, he said that I was wrong type of Armenian and that he is trying to make me better (lol) at least I speak read and write!
What my point is, is that a lot of Armenians don’t know what it takes to be one! I myself think that I am Armenian because I refused to change my citizenship to Canadian, I will stay immigrant until I return to my country. And if someone thinks that they are Armenian think why? And How?

Edited by Yerevanian, 03 May 2004 - 09:53 PM.

[Azat]

Dear Yerevanian, if you were the representative for Armenia, would you be willing to walk up to Kirk Krikorian and tell him that he is not an Armenian? Or to Aznavour? or to so many of the Armenians who have ended up in the Diaspora because of the genocide or because of the political system under Soviet rule or because of economical conditions(like you and I).

You still have not defined what an Armenian is, if it is a person who lives in Armenia then you and I can certainly not qualify as one as we run away from our Armenianness the minute things got tough(you to Canada and I to US). How can you tell me that you are more of and Armenian because you have kept your citizenship and I have not?

The day we(and this we is mostly the Armenians of Hayastan) become more accepting of our brothers and sisters throughout the world is the day we will become a MUCH more powerful people.

BTW, welcome to HyeForum. It is great to have you here and I hope you are here to stay for long.

BTW2: I agree 100% about the teaching of genocide in Armenian schools in the west. Kids grow up hating…

[Yerevanian]

Dear Yerevanian, if you were the representative for Armenia, would you be willing to walk up to Kirk Krikorian and tell him that he is not an Armenian? Or to Aznavour? or to so many of the Armenians who have ended up in the Diaspora because of the genocide or because of the political system under Soviet rule or because of economical conditions(like you and I).

You still have not defined what an Armenian is, if it is a person who lives in Armenia then you and I can certainly not qualify as one as we run away from our Armenianness the minute things got tough(you to Canada and I to US). How can you tell me that you are more of and Armenian because you have kept your citizenship and I have not?

The day we(and this we is mostly the Armenians of Hayastan) become more accepting of our brothers and sisters throughout the world is the day we will become a MUCH more powerful people.

BTW, welcome to HyeForum. It is great to have you here and I hope you are here to stay for long.

BTW2: I agree 100% about the teaching of genocide in Armenian schools in the west. Kids grow up hating…

Azat... if you read my post carefully, you'll realize that what I was saying was that you can't be Armenian just because your parents are! including me! I was one, when I was living there. you think I knew what Armenian meant? so many people live there and curse Armenia at the same time! BUT you have to call yourself Armenian at least when you saw it! I'm sure Kirkorian went there and loves Armenia as much as we all do, but Aznavour didn't even want to admit that he was Armenian until some years ago or should I say after he was famous?
so. see not everyone who has Armenian blood feels Armenian! I can bring many many examples from my surrounding!

Azat I ended up being Diaspora... I can't say that Diaspora is not Armenian. That's far from what my point is

Thank you for welcoming me.. I hope I'll stay for long:)