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Netherlands Recognizes Armenian Genocide


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#1 nairi

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 07:30 PM

It happened tonight. The Dutch parliament recognized the Armenian genocide. This will be translated soon. It's a press release by The Federation of Armenian Organizations in the Netherlands:

------------------
Federatie Armeense Organisaties Nederland
24 april comite

PERSBERICHT

Nederland erkent Armeense Genocide

Den Haag, 21 december 2004 - De Armeense Federatie is verheugd dat vandaag de Tweede Kamer met algemene stemmen een motie over de erkenning van de Armeense genocide heeft aangenomen.

Jarenlang heeft de Armeense gemeenschap bij Kamer en Regering op erkenning van de Armeense genocide van 1915 aangedrongen. Speciaal het afgelopen jaar, in de aanloop naar en tijdens het Nederlandse voorzitterschap van EU, is door het 24 april comite van de Armeense Federatie voortdurend actie gevoerd om de Armeense kwestie onder de aandacht van de kamerleden en van het Nederlandse publiek brengen.

De motie werd ingediend in het debat over de uitkomsten van de Europese Top m.b.t. Turkije. In dat debat stelden vrijwel alle fracties vragen aan de Regering over het uitblijven van conclusies ter zake van de Armeense genocide. Dit ondanks inzet van o.a. Frankrijk en het Europees Parlement en ook van Minister Bot zelf, die de kwestie steeds bij de Turkse collega's aan de orde heeft gesteld. Een meerderheid van de Kamer had daarom gevraagd.

In de motie wordt de regering gevraagd om "de erkenning van de Armeense genocide voortdurend en nadrukkelijk aan de orde te stellen in de dialoog met Turkije".

Christen Unie fractievoorzitter Rouvoet diende de motie in, die de steun kreeg van alle andere partijen in de Kamer.
------------------------------------
Tekst van Motie

TWEEDE KAMER DER STATEN-GENERAAL 2
VergadeIjaar 2004-2005

21 501-20
Europese Raad

Nr.270
MOTIE VAN HET LID ROUVOET C.S.
Voorgesteld 21 december 2004

De Kamer,

gehoord de beraadslaging,

constaterende dat de Europese Raad, bijeen in vergadering op 16 en 17 december 2004 te Brussel, heeft besloten tot de start van de toetredingsonderhandelingen met Turkije per 3 oktober 2005;

constaterende dat de Europese Raad in haar conclusies heeft vastgelegd dat met Turkije een intensieve politieke en culturele dialoog wordt aangegaan, waarbij ook het maatschappelijk middenveld wordt betrokken, teneinde het wederzijds begrip te
verbeteren door mensen samen te brengen (conclusie 23);

van mening dat daar onlosmakelijk mee verbonden is een eerlijke omgang met de eigen geschiedenis van een kandidaat~lidstaat;

verzoekt de regering om binnen het kader van deze dialoog met Turkije voortdurend en nadrukkelijk de erkenning van de Armeense genocide aan de orde te stellen;

en gaat over tot de orde van de dag.

Rouvoet
van Bommel
van der Staaij
van der Laan
van Baalen
Herben
Huyvendak
Wilders

#2 MosJan

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 07:43 PM

The Dutch parliament recognized the Armenian genocide
notworthy.gif

Sister JAN you have made my daye !!!

Thank you

#3 Sasun

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 07:44 PM

Wow! This is great. Wasn't it kind of unexpected?

#4 Armen

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 07:50 PM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Dec 21 2004, 07:44 PM)
Wow! This is great. Wasn't it kind of unexpected?


The Europeans are gonna piss the hell out of Turkey with this kinda unexpected stuff biggrin.gif

#5 Siamanto

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 07:57 PM

QUOTE (MosJan @ Dec 21 2004, 07:43 PM)
The Dutch parliament recognized the Armenian genocide
                                notworthy.gif

Sister JAN you have  made my  daye !!!

Thank you


Mine too! Thanks!

#6 nairi

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:05 PM

Okay, to summarize quickly:

A motion was presented to parliament tonight requesting that the parliament unremittingly and explicitly raise the recognition of the Armenian genocide in its dialogue with Turkey. Majority of MPs voted pro.

The motion was presented by de ChristenUnie (Rouvoet), Socialist Party/SP (Van Bommel), Reformed Party/SGP (Van der Staaij), Liberal Democrats/D66 (Van der Laan), People's Party for Freedom and Democracy/VVD (Herben), Green Left/GL (Duyvendak), Group Wilders/GW (Wilders).

Sasun jan, nothing is unexpected smile.gif

#7 Sasun

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:16 PM

QUOTE (nairi @ Dec 21 2004, 09:05 PM)
Sasun jan, nothing is unexpected smile.gif

Am I to understand that you were expecting quietly without the knowledge of your fellow forumers smile.gif

#8 Siamanto

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:20 PM

I Can't Wait To Hear The Jurkish Explanation And Hysterical Reaction!


Considering that the Turkish Community of the Netherlands is far more numerous than the Armenian Community, I wonder what "explanation" the Jurks and the Muslim ass kissing rednecks will fabricate? The "Electoral Campaign" BS would be obviously untenable!

#9 Armen

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:26 PM

QUOTE (Siamanto @ Dec 21 2004, 08:20 PM)
I Can't Wait To Hear The Jurkish ..... Hysterical Reaction!


It is THAT exciting, eh?

#10 Siamanto

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:45 PM

[The following is an automatic translation. Not knowing Dutch, I can't assess the quality. Siamanto.]

Federation Armenian organisations the Netherlands 24 April comite

Press BULLETIN

The Netherlands recognises Armenian genocide

The Hague, 21 December 2004 - the Armenian federation has been
delighted that today the House of Commons has adopted unanimously a
motion concerning the recognition of the Armenian genocide.

Many years' the Armenian community has insisted at chamber and
government on recognition of the Armenian genocide of 1915. Especially
last year, in run-up to and during the Dutch presidency of EU, by 24
April comite of the Armenian federation constant action have been
conducted for the Armenian question under the attention of the Member
of Parliament oaths and of Dutch public bringing.

The motion was given notice of in the debate concerning the outcomes
of the European summit with regard to Turkey. In that debate stalks
nearly all fracties ask to the government concerning staying away
conclusions to the point of the Armenian genocide. This in spite of
commitment of among other things France and the European Parliament
and also of minister Bot himself, which the question has brought up
always at the Turkish colleagues. For this reason a majority of the
chamber had asked.

In motion the government is asked "bring up the recognition of the
Armenian genocide continuously and expressly in the dialogue with
Turkey".

Christian Union fractievoorzitter Rouvoet served motion in, which the
support got of all other parties in the chamber.

Text of motion

HOUSE OF COMMONS OF THE STATEN-GENERAAL 2 VergadeIjaar 2004-2005

21 501-20 European Council

Nr.270
MOTION OF THE MEMBER ROUVOET C.S. PRESENTED 21 DECEMBER 2004

The chamber,

heard the deliberation,

observing that the European Council has decided, at meeting on 16 and
17 December 2004 in Brussels, the start of the accession negotiations
with Turkey by 3 October 2005;

observing that the European Council in its conclusions has fixed that
with Turkey an intensive political and cultural dialogue is
contracted, where also the civil society is involved, in order to
improve the reciprocal term by bringing together conclusion 23) people
(;

of opinion that is linked with that inextricable a honest ambulatory
with its own history of kandidaat~lidstaat;

the government requests within the framework of this dialogue with
Turkey continuously and expressly bring up the recognition of the
Armenian genocide;

and proceeds to the order of the day.

Rouvoet of bommel of of the Staaij of of the alley of being fed up
lords Huyvendak Wilders

#11 nairi

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:48 PM

Yes, the translation is quite accurate. Wow, that's a pretty good machine!

#12 Siamanto

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:49 PM

QUOTE (Armen @ Dec 21 2004, 08:26 PM)
It is THAT exciting, eh?

No, it's NOT!
I just wonder what kind of "fairy tale" explanation their Jurkish provincial mindset will fabricate!
It can't be the usual "Electoral Campaign" BS!!! Can it???

#13 nairi

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 05:54 AM

Here's pic of the motion, with translation below:


Attached File  motietk.jpg   65.24KB   77 downloads


Parliament
Assembly Year 2004-2005

21 501-20 European Council

Nr.270

MOTION OF THE MEMBER ROUVOET C.S.
Presented 21 December 2004

The chamber,

on the advice of the deliberation,

noting that the European Council, in the meeting on 16 and 17 December 2004 in Brussels, has decided the start of the accession negotiations with Turkey on 3 October 2005;

noting that the European Council in its conclusion has settled that an intensive political and cultural dialogue will take place with Turkey, whereby civil society is also involved, in order to improve the reciprocal understanding by bringing together the people (conclusion 23);

being of the opinion that herewith an honest acceptance of its own history of candidate member state is inextricably connected;

asks the government within the framework of its dialogue with Turkey to continuously and expressly raise the recognition of the Armenian genocide;

and proceeds to the order of the day.

Rouvoet
Van Bommel
Van der Staaij
Van der Laan
Van Baalen
Herbens
Duyvendak
Wilders

------
Btw, the motion was unanimously accepted. I made a mistake when I said "the majority". It was everyone. There were already hints that this was going to happen today, seen that many had already signed the motion, and many more sounded positive. The fact that FM Bot welcomed the motion in parliament last night, said enough. But of course the actual outcome was still a surprise. You never know what might happen last minute..

Sasun, you guys are one of the first to know wink.gif Does that compensate?

#14 Nakharar

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 06:59 AM

Good. The Turks will never be able to enter the EU.

#15 Siamanto

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 09:06 AM

QUOTE (nairi @ Dec 21 2004, 08:48 PM)
Yes, the translation is quite accurate. Wow, that's a pretty good machine!

nairi,
It's free and it's web based. Try it yourself!

http://www.systransoft.com/

Again, thanks for the news.
Siamanto.

#16 DominO

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 10:18 AM

QUOTE (Siamanto @ Dec 22 2004, 10:06 AM)
nairi,
It's free and it's web based. Try it yourself!

http://www.systransoft.com/

Again, thanks for the news.
Siamanto.



Yep! It's the best. Nearly all others(the last time I've checked) are based on Systran 4... from its site we have the 5. I compared both version, 5 is really amazing.

#17 nairi

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 03:12 PM

The stenographic report from the debate and votes last night (search for Europese Top - that's where it starts, and ends with next heading about 6 pages later.):

http://www.tweedekam...tcm22-43029.doc

The relevant bit is here:

Attached File  041221debatTOP.doc   50KB   34 downloads

Siamanto, feel free to pass it through one of your miracle machines smile.gif

#18 nairi

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 03:17 PM

QUOTE (MosJan @ Dec 22 2004, 02:43 AM)
The Dutch parliament recognized the Armenian genocide
                                notworthy.gif

Sister JAN you have  made my  daye !!!

Thank you


It's more than just recognition. It is forcing Holland to press Turkey to recognize the Armenian genocide too. Some people didn't really consider this an official recognition by the Dutch government. But it is. Never before has the entire Dutch government unanimously agreed to refer to what has happened as genocide openly, and to press Turkey to do so too! In other words, it's not just a piece of paper; it's something that will have to be put into practice as well.

#19 MosJan

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 03:48 PM

thumbup.gif

#20 Dave

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 04:12 PM

Yes... Thank you Netherlands (for another slap to Ankara's face tongue.gif )! 2 weeks ago, Slovakia recognized it too biggrin.gif




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