58 replies to this topic

[Anonymouse]

I think by "submissive" Anonymouse does not mean a zombie.. but one who knows when to speak, and how.. (chape chananchi).. because im sorry if this may sound old fashioned or whatever.. but i know too many women/girls who do not respect their husbands

i want a girl who knows what she should do, and knows when she should not make certain comments.. if there is anything to be discussed.. there is a time and place to do it.. where it will create the least amount of tension between the couple.

(that was a rather not so well directed post, just my thaughts on the matter)

This is a very eloquent summation of my exact sentiments my friend.

Edited by Anonymouse, 04 January 2005 - 06:59 PM.

[Azat]

I think by "submissive" Anonymouse does not mean a zombie.. but one who knows when to speak, and how.. (chape chananchi).. because im sorry if this may sound old fashioned or whatever.. but i know too many women/girls who do not respect their husbands

i want a girl who knows what she should do, and knows when she should not make certain comments.. if there is anything to be discussed.. there is a time and place to do it.. where it will create the least amount of tension between the couple.

Gevo if everything you said here can apply to men as well then I have no issue with it. However my problem is when we think that women should be this and that and do things in some specific way and we(you and I) can do as we please. This leads to men who think we are always right and they are always wrong and should just shut up and be submissive. Anywho, submissive is boring anyways.

[MosJan]

Azat jan submissive'i HAyeren@ vor mekna ???

[gevo27]

Gevo if everything you said here can apply to men as well then I have no issue with it.  However my problem is when we think that women should be this and that and do things in some specific way and we(you and I) can do as we please.  This leads to men who think we are always right and they are always wrong and should just shut up and be submissive.  Anywho, submissive is boring anyways.

everything applies to both genders.. i have always tried the equality thing.. though in some things it most literally cant be.. in most areas of life, and socializing it very well can. So, you shouldnt have any problem it applies for both

[Armen]

And your response has nothign to do with the main points of my post. Compromise and Respect.

i get this feeling you hate me ?  its almost funny.

Gevo, my reponse has everything to do with your main points because if you don't apply what you preach you're not speaking out of experience. That's why I said it was "false" not "wrong". I can connect to lot of things you've said...

I take my words back if your post months ago was a misunderstanding. It would be ugly even as a joke. That's one thing I realy hate about Armenian social habits.

I don't hate you, I barely know you but some of your posts I remember for long time.

[gevo27]

Gevo, my reponse has everything to do with your main points because if you don't apply what you preach you're not speaking out of experience. That's why I said it was "false" not "wrong". I can connect to lot of things you've said...

I take my words back if your post months ago was a misunderstanding. It would be ugly even as a joke. That's one thing I realy hate about Armenian social habits.

I don't hate you, I barely know you but some of your posts I remember for long time.

WOW< out of the prhaps hundrd of thousands of posts i have seen and thaught vulgar and not right, out of the million comments from al the other people here, i say one thing that called a friend awhore, all in a joke.. and this is what happens? lol.. wel.. i don tknow what to say.. But calling people whores is far. FAAAAAAR from my social habbits... it seems that joke was very much misplaced and misunderstood.. anywho. I still dont see what your initial response has to do with my previous post??? I dont see what i said would be considered "bad"... or any such thing.. care to expand your thaughts a little bit, in the effort to lessen the confusion? and perhaps allow myself to illustrate my thaughts on this matter a little better///?

[allarmeniangirl]

What I don't like:
A man comes home from work and his wife gives him a TV dinner because she is working on some project for her job or well, whatever.
There are men who want to be in control of women because they think low of women.
There are men who want their wives to be housewives. As in, the man brings the paycheck and the woman sits at home takes care of the child, cooks and cleans and the husband barely sepnds any time with the kids.
A man who wants his wife to be a housewife, but it doesn't mean that he does not appreciate her work or that he dooesn't love her.


I'll just describe how I like it to be. Both the man and the woman have jobs. Both parents devote the same amount of time and love to their children. Neither of the partners have control over the other. The man does not cook. I don't know about you guys, but to see a guy in the family cook while the woman does manly chores like fix stuff around the house, is pretty funny to me. Whether we (women) like it or not, men are physically stronger than women. I don't know, but I just like the idea of a woman being feminine. Ever seen those women who are so rugged and physically strong that they just look manly. However when a woman is sick it is sweet when her husband cooks and helps around the house. Same would go when the man is sick but I doubt any man is going to allow his wife (partner) do heavy things because they are gentlemen. lol.



P.S. I didn't read what you guys wrote. Just wrote what I wanted to say.

[Armen]

WOW< out of the prhaps hundrd of thousands of posts i have seen and thaught vulgar and not right, out of the million comments from al the other people here, i say one thing that called a friend awhore, all in a joke.. and this is what happens? lol.. wel.. i don tknow what to say..

That's because I care for you Gevo. See, and you say I hate you ...

But calling people whores is far. FAAAAAAR from my social habbits... it seems that joke was very much misplaced and misunderstood.. anywho.  I still dont see what your initial response has to do with my previous post??? I dont see what i said would be considered "bad"... or any such thing.. care to expand your thaughts a little bit, in the effort to lessen the confusion? and perhaps allow myself to illustrate my thaughts on this matter a little better///?

Again, if you practice what you've said, I don't have anything to add cause I agreed to what you said.

[gevo27]

That's because I care for you Gevo. See, and you say I hate you ... 

Again, if you practice what you've said, I don't have anything to add cause I agreed to what you said.

De mihat ari mer yan laaav xemenk harpenk (yes voch xemoxem vochel harpox).. ... lav lav.. mikichel xorovats kanenk.. sovats che mernenk.

[Siamanto]

I love the - polluted - air that I breath and I obviously depend on it. Shall I stop breathing? 

First of all, you don't depend on polluted air, you get used to it.

When in love, you depend on the other person for emotional nourishment (as stated above).

In a loveless relationship you simply become used to the other person.

Sulamita,
I know that my statement was somehow "open ended," but I have to say that your interpretation is not even close to what I intented to mean!

Please, do take the time ...  ... and it is not inevitable in my opinion.

I will, but not anytime soon! Sorry!

Thanx for the "advise" but when I think too hard I get a headache. 

Another "advice:"
Humor is the oxygen of the mind, it helps fighting "migraines" and recommended for a longer life: 100, 101!

intense, true and often explosive don't translate to LOVE do they?

It is NOT meant to mean that " intense, true and often explosive do translate to LOVE ." Not at all! That was simply a descriptive BACKGROUND!
The emphasis was on:
"We both have strong and independent minded...personalities/selves, yet the "transition" has NEVER been smooth, even on the n-th iteration!"
As a reply to your statement:

It's an internal crisis you deal with on your own.  The stronger your "self" is ... the smoother is the transition.

[Nané]

Sulamita,
I know that my statement was somehow "open ended," but I have to say that your interpretation is not even close to what I intented to mean!

Well, "open ended statements" and indiscernible intended meanings deserve idiosyncratic interpretations.

I will, but not anytime soon! Sorry!

Don't sweat it. Whenever ...

Another "advice:"
Humor is the oxygen of the mind, it helps fighting "migraines" and recommended for a longer life: 100, 101!

No thank you ... I'm aiming for 77.

It is NOT meant to mean that " intense, true and often explosive do translate to LOVE ." Not at all! That was simply a descriptive BACKGROUND!

Thank you for the descriptive background (that did not really contribute much). You love to brag don't you?

The emphasis was on:
"We both have strong and independent minded...personalities/selves, yet the "transition" has NEVER been smooth, even on the n-th iteration!"
As a reply to your statement:

My statement regarding the "strong self" was not meant to apply to ALL cases. I'm sorry the transition has NEVER been smooth for you.

[gevo27]

BTW: I am a firm believer that each should have their own bank accounts and a joint one as well.  Contributions to the joined one should be made based on the income of each.

Azat, i kinda agree to this, as i see noharm in it.. it is a personal matter between husband and wife... but if i may ask, what is it exactly that you beleive in this for?> I assume that neither of these accounts and the balances in them are to be a secret from the spouse... and that the mentality of "its my money, not yours" would not exist in a marriage.. given that.. why do you strongly beleive in this? what do you feel like it will accomplish in a marriage?

[nairi]

I don't agree with this at all. In my personal experience of my parents: like all parents my parents have had their problems (to the point where I was thinking of a possibility of divorce) and my mom repeatedly has told to my dad that it's OK, he can leave and she'll be fine. My dad didn't. They are the strongest willed people I know, and I especially admire my mom in that regards for her sense of independence, more so when I think about the generation she grew up with. She acquired this sense of independence from another strong woman, my maternal grandmother, and she wants me to be strong and independent when I get married. Being strong doesn't mean being selfish and self-indulgent but it means having a strong character to realize when you have to stand up and defend yourself and your rights.

So you agree with me that women in general are not like your mom and grandmother?

I'm not arguing that one is right and the other is wrong, I'm just saying that it's almost a natural instinct for most women to be afraid of abandonment, especially around pregnancy and young children. Women do tend to feel more attached to men (esp. after having sex with them) than it is the other way around, because we need men more than they need us, esp. when it comes to raising kids.

[Anoushik]

I'm not arguing that one is right and the other is wrong, I'm just saying that it's almost a natural instinct for most women to be afraid of abandonment, especially around pregnancy and young children. Women do tend to feel more attached to men (esp. after having sex with them) than it is the other way around, because we need men more than they need us, esp. when it comes to raising kids.

Is it really a natural instinct or is it socially constructed?

What about the small but growing number of single women who choose to have children and raise them alone?

[gevo27]

Is it really a natural instinct or is it socially constructed?

What about the small but growing number of single women who choose to have children and raise them alone?

why would you wanna raise children alone?

[Azat]

Azat, i kinda agree to this, as i see noharm in it.. it is a personal matter between husband and wife... but if i may ask, what is it exactly that you beleive in this for?> I assume that neither of these accounts and the balances in them are to be a secret from the spouse... and that the mentality of "its my money, not yours" would not exist in a marriage.. given that.. why do you strongly beleive in this? what do you feel like it will accomplish in a marriage?

Gevo, it gives the partner who is earning less money more buying power. Most time unfortunately it is the female and they dont have to ask the husband if they can go and buy something that they have been eying for a while. This is also a reason why they have less arguments over money.

[gevo27]

Gevo, it gives the partner who is earning less money more buying power.  Most time unfortunately it is the female and they dont have to ask the husband if they can go and buy something that they have been eying for a while.  This is also a reason why they have less arguments over money.

SO its about the husband (who is assumingly earning more) taking control of finances? Well in my opinion if either one (husband or wife) feel that this would be an issue, then perhaps it is a good idea. But, i can say it depends on the people involved. For me i would not neccissarily think its a big deal, as long as whatever she wants to spend money on is not somethign outragous .. such as a $10,000 skirt or something.. then everything should be fine.. i dont like it when the man sayd "I MAKE THE MONEY< I DECIDE HOW TO SPEND IT" it shows insecurity.. There should be enouh "ser" (love) between the two where they can work out any kind of spending issues etc... I dont neccissarily think this is a big problem, but i wouldnt know exactly, im not experianced in this field.. lol..

BUT, like i said.. if my souse was to insist on this, i would have no problem, cause i do not beleive in a relationship there needs to be the mentality of "my money, your money"... its not a competition.. or a dictatorship...

[Anoushik]

why would you wanna raise children alone?

I certainly wouldn't but if my husband turned out to be a controlling jealous freak I would have the courage to leave him.

I think the small number of women who choose to raise children alone haven't met their ideal and the time is running out. Knowing this they opt to have children by themselves instead of settling with someone less than their ideal.

[Siamanto]

Gevo, it gives the partner who is earning less money more buying power.  Most time unfortunately it is the female and they dont have to ask the husband if they can go and buy something that they have been eying for a while.  This is also a reason why they have less arguments over money.

Azat Jan,
I totally agree with you that the financial weight or power of one of the partner should not compromise the integrity, pride or freedom of the other partner. Eventually, the imbalance may - and usually does - lead to an unhealthy relationship.
However, I'm not sure that a "common bank account" is a solution. It may be a step forward and I agree with your approach!
Human interactions and dynamics are too unpredictable, multidimensional and volatile to be "regulated" by simple mechanisms. Of course, anything that can improve the situation is welcome!