433 replies to this topic

[Sasun]

Christ's Body (the Church) is the greatest thing there is on earth

My friend, this is a fine slogan but is it true? Christ's Body is where Christ's Spirit is. A church is a building or an organization. Unless there is true devotion to God there is no Christ's Body. And if there is a true devotion in a desert then there is Christ's Body.

St. Francis of Assissi was so much devoted and in tune with Jesus Christ that he had unity in body, mind and soul with Jesus Christ. That is why he also had Jesus's wounds of crucifixion on his own body. This I call Christ's Body. As far as various churches of the world are concerned - no, in most cases they are not the Body of Christ, they are simply places to gather and listen to sermons without much devotion really.

[ED]

Sasun if I may tell a short stroy from my own experiance

years ago I had a very complicated surgary, very painfull and recovery took a long time, wile and during the recovery the pain was unberable and as a rule I dident take pain killers, finaly I asked my doctor to priscrabe me with one, he said dont need to buy it here is madication and its a pain killer, looked like ordinary madication with vicodin written on it, after taking the first one the pain was gone, and I continue for a week then stoped, pain never came back!

few weeks after I had to see my doc again, after the examination I said thatks very much for the vicodin, he smiled and told me it was ordinary VITAMIN C

mind over matters, mind workes in mesterios ways and its ALL in our minds, if one doesent want to live/feel better no religion, or miiracle will help, got to have faith, be that to the religion or what ever rocks your boat

[Sasun]

Sasun if I may tell a short stroy from my own experiance

years ago I had a very complicated surgary, very painfull and recovery took a long time, wile and during the recovery the pain was unberable and as a rule I dident take pain killers, finaly I asked my doctor to priscrabe me with one, he said dont need to buy it here is madication and its a pain killer, looked like ordinary madication with vicodin written on it, after taking the first one the pain was gone, and I continue for a week then stoped, pain never came back!

few weeks after I had to see my doc again, after the examination I said thatks very much for the vicodin, he smiled and told me it was ordinary VITAMIN C

mind over matters, mind workes in mesterios ways and its ALL in our minds, if one doesent want to live/feel better no religion, or miiracle will help, got to have faith, be that to the religion or what ever rocks your boat

Ed,

In your case it may have been your mind that removed the pain. But that does not mean that prayer will not work. Both are possible.

[ED]

Sasun jan thats exacly my point. I'm talking about mind set and power of mind here, if yu want to belive, that is the question, not just in God, Christianity, Jewdeism, Islam, etc.......but any form of belive, simply put, I belived if i took the madication the pain would go away, dosent matter if it was waht it was, main thing is it was gone

do you get my point?

[Anoushik]

Sometimes people use humor to avoid directly insulting others.

Good one!

[Anoushik]

Sasun jan thats exacly my point. I'm talking about mind set and power of mind here, if yu want to belive, that is the question, not just in God, Christianity, Jewdeism, Islam, etc.......

Yes, my favorite belief being belief in humanism.

Djrak, sSebB, and others who say that life is empty and dry without faith in God - my question to you is why not have faith in humanity, your fellow brothers and sisters on this earth, who are of actual flesh and blood, who make life better every day? Look at the advancement of humanity and what we have accomplished!

[Djrak]

Yes, my favorite belief being belief in humanism.

Djrak, sSebB, and others who say that life is empty and dry without faith in God - my question to you is why not have faith in humanity, your fellow brothers and sisters on this earth, who are of actual flesh and blood, who make life better every day? Look at the advancement of humanity and what we have accomplished!

Dear Anoushik, when you realize that you can't move an inch or take a single breath without God you'll see why He's so amazing.
Anoushik, the world has nothing to offer me. You know why? Because I am dead to the world and risen with Jesus Christ because I believed in Him. It isnt something i earned but something He gave me freely. And the life I live now is so much more superior than anything the world has to offer. How long and how much of a full life will you live without the creator and giver of life? 60?70?100? I will live forever. This is something I know. Not something i've learned.
Advancement of anything is impossible without God. Actual flesh is fallen from the life it was meant for. So I rather live the way i was designed to live (as a human being) than to live deceived about my identity and a whole bunch of other stuff. It isnt something theoretical but actual life experience that I'm talking about.
When born of the Spirit of God everything changes. Who i was before is dead. I am a new being now and I live for the one who saved me from the trap of the evil one who has blinded the world so that they wont see the glory of Jesus Christ.
Life is empty without Him, even if u live the "fullest" life in a worldly sense, you will still feel empty the end of the day. Unsatisfied and wanting more.
When u receive LIFE (=Jesus) you become enlightened, spiritually, mentally and physically.

[Djrak]

My friend, this is a fine slogan but is it true? Christ's Body is where Christ's Spirit is. A church is a building or an organization. Unless there is true devotion to God there is no Christ's Body. And if there is a true devotion in a desert then there is Christ's Body.

St. Francis of Assissi was so much devoted and in tune with Jesus Christ that he had unity in body, mind and soul with Jesus Christ. That is why he also had Jesus's wounds of crucifixion on his own body. This I call Christ's Body. As far as various churches of the world are concerned - no, in most cases they are not the Body of Christ, they are simply places to gather and listen to sermons without much devotion really.

I wasnt talking about the building or institution, neither does the Bible or our faith. sSebB lives on the other side of the globe and I don't know Him but we are 1. United by His Spirit.
I agree most churches (small 'c') are empty of God's Spirit. because the Holy Spirit is very sensitive, St Paul warns us not to sadden the Spirit. People (so called believers) trust in themselves instead of trusting God so that He leads them directly with His Spirit.
That is exactly why atheists and non believers have all these excuses. If the Church (capital 'C') stayed true to Him the world would have been different. But anyway,
I believe that the Body of Christ has reached a certain maturity now in the 21st cent and the future seems brighter because our Lord Himself told us that the end wont come until the gospel reaches all corners of the earth! The Body will grow! and our Lord will be glorified.

Edited by Djrak, 15 February 2006 - 03:48 PM.

[Djrak]

So the failure of all the men who were before Jesus Christ or just had no chance to hear of him was due to them having no Jesus, and all of their successes and advancements are unexplained?

Whatever happenned before Jesus was a preparation for His coming there was no salvation before Jesus, everything led to death. BUT all those who believed and put their hope in God were risen with Christ when He descended into hades and offered salvation because He defeated death and granted life to those trapped there.

Edited by Djrak, 15 February 2006 - 03:58 PM.

[Djrak]

sorry... double post...

Edited by Djrak, 15 February 2006 - 03:59 PM.

[Sasun]

Sometimes people use humor to avoid directly insulting others.

I guess the question is, why would you want to insult someone, and then use humor to cover it?

[Sasun]

Koan

His Master told him
"Go and seek the truth of the lie. If you find it , let me know - by
clapping with one hand.
He left his home and master to sit on the top of a mountain surrounded
by a vast valley.
Focusing on the meditative silence of his heart, hoping for answers of
questions he never
asked. Somewhere, lost deep inside himself, he had a vision of a
beautiful child talking to
him:

"The reality of illusion which creates the illusion of reality still
carries the truth even it's a lie.
On the one hand are the things we need, on the other hand are the
things we want-
still buried under the shelter of relativity."

Now he knew! - It was so clear.
To reveal the truth covered by the lie, just want the things you need.
Suddenly he heard his master laughing.He opened his eyes and saw his
master standing right
in front of him. The master smiled and said " Ah...I heard you clapping
with one hand...."

[Zartonk]

my question to you is why not have faith in humanity

Thanks Anoushik.

[Azat]

For years people have taken photos of UFOs and then in 1970 the FBI put a simple contest that just said "If you take a picture of a UFO we will give you 10K if it can be proven to be authentic, however you get jail term if it is not authentic" I do know that until few years ago not a single photo was submitted to the FBI to claim the 10K.

I wonder how many of these great healers would submit to those kind of a contest if the AMA ran a similar contest. I do know thousands of doctors would but wonder about these healers. BTW there are a few Armenian healers in Glendale as well.

As for people who get curred of cancer because of "religion", I would point to 1000 cases that get curred by medical means for each one that you guys can point to to be healed by religion.

[vava]

No Vava, I have to disagree. Flat earth was never an observed fact. Portions of earth were observed to be approximately flat, that was all that was observed.

Same as in the case of "spiritual" healing. People are observed to heal - and their healing is being attributed to religion/prayer. Sometimes sick people just get better.

As to healing, it is an observed fact because you can see somebody is sick then somebody else heals him and he is no longer sick. I call it an observed fact. Often it is also repatedly observed which makes it a more reliable observation. The reason many people are skeptical regarding healing is because there are many cases of hoax, superstition or cases where the healing happened naturally while it was attributed to spiritual healing.

This (the bolded statement) has been my observation - and it is quite prevalent.
You guys can attribute healing to god or whatever - I securely believe that it is the "self" that heals. Whether it is through the belief in religion, homeopathic medicine, or sheer determination. It is mind over matter - what the mind believes, in fact. So the belief in religion can certainly be a healing force... but magically healing someone else is an entirely different matter.

[Anoushik]

Dear Anoushik, when you realize that you can't move an inch or take a single breath without God you'll see why He's so amazing.

Yes, the first time I realized that I will no more live life with God (because I realized that He doesn't exist), I admit, I was afraid. But then I got over it...

Anoushik, the world has nothing to offer me. You know why? Because I am dead to the world and risen with Jesus Christ because I believed in Him. It isnt something i earned but something He gave me freely. And the life I live now is so much more superior than anything the world has to offer.

... and the reason I got over it is because I have a different outlook on life. I believe the world has everything to offer me. When I listen to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony or read Chekhov I marvel at how sympathetic we, human beings, are to each other. It feels good to be understood, to know that there are other beings just like me, who experience, or experienced, the same emotions - happiness, joy, sadness, dissappointment, triumph, etc. - that I experience in my daily life. My fellow human beings are real, and they guide me through life.

[aSoldier]

Yes, my favorite belief being belief in humanism.

Djrak, sSebB, and others who say that life is empty and dry without faith in God - my question to you is why not have faith in humanity, your fellow brothers and sisters on this earth, who are of actual flesh and blood, who make life better every day? Look at the advancement of humanity and what we have accomplished!

Yes, we love our neighbours.

Humanity is nothing without God though.

The world will give you everything, that you don't need.

[aSoldier]

because I realized that He doesn't exist

I wonder how exactly you 'realized' this.

Psalm 14:1
The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."

It feels good to be understood, to know that there are other beings just like me, who experience, or experienced, the same emotions - happiness, joy, sadness, dissappointment, triumph, etc. - that I experience in my daily life.

I suppose you discuss your problems with people to, is that right? Because they 'understand'. It happens too often that humans are always running to people to solve their problems. They don't even know what they're doing, let alone be qualified to tell you what to do.

Job 32:8
But it is the spirit in a man,
the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.

My fellow human beings are real, and they guide me through life.

If they're not following the straight path, how are they to guide you in the right direction?

Matthew 15:14
Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.

.

[Djrak]

When I listen to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony or ...

Anoushik, you know what Beethoven said about the world and what it has to offer (musically)? He said all music not spiritual is like sounds of cries from hell.

[Ludwig9]

Dear Anoushik, when you realize that you can't move an inch or take a single breath without God you'll see why He's so amazing.
Anoushik, the world has nothing to offer me. You know why? Because I am dead to the world and risen with Jesus Christ because I believed in Him. It isnt something i earned but something He gave me freely. And the life I live now is so much more superior than anything the world has to offer. How long and how much of a full life will you live without the creator and giver of life? 60?70?100? I will live forever. This is something I know. Not something i've learned.
Advancement of anything is impossible without God. Actual flesh is fallen from the life it was meant for. So I rather live the way i was designed to live (as a human being) than to live deceived about my identity and a whole bunch of other stuff. It isnt something theoretical but actual life experience that I'm talking about.
When born of the Spirit of God everything changes. Who i was before is dead. I am a new being now and I live for the one who saved me from the trap of the evil one who has blinded the world so that they wont see the glory of Jesus Christ.
Life is empty without Him, even if u live the "fullest" life in a worldly sense, you will still feel empty the end of the day. Unsatisfied and wanting more.
When u receive LIFE (=Jesus) you become enlightened, spiritually, mentally and physically.

Amen.
Yev yevus khaghagootyamp uzDer aghachetsook.