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Mixed Armenian - WHAT???


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#21 Guest__*

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Posted 30 May 2000 - 12:57 PM

Well, I'm half English, half Armenian and I like the blend.

There's not a lot of Armenians in England, so maybe I'm a bit rare, but i like that.

#22 Guest__*

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 07:08 AM

Hi Urban Tiger,

I think this web-site will be of an interest to you. It includes information about the family of Mamikonyans, who were the sparapet-s (smth. like Defence Minister) of the Armenian Kingdom form 3-rd to 5-th century AD. Their Chinese ancestors came to Armenia in 2-nd century BC, escaping Emperor Qing Shi. One of them, Vardan Mamikonyan later in 451 AD saved the Christian Armenia. At present there is a big monument to him standing right in the middle of Yerevan capital of Armenia. Here is the web-site. http://www.virtualsc...osian/china.htm
And also there is a association "Vardanank" in USA named after Vardan Mamikonyan.

Hajoghutyun

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Posted 08 June 2000 - 04:33 PM

This is becoming quite interesting people .
Oliver, you say "I find your options and choices to be pretty restraining and small", I don't see why! You say you have friends who speak both their native languages but will their children speak all four of their native language? The problem is that you only think to the generation of your children, think further , it's obvious one culture (if not all) will get lost, remember we're in modern western society?!
You talk abou you and your children being exposed to a different view on life in general instead of the "same norms" and perspectives over and over again. I'm saying you should choose if you want your descendants to be Armenian or Chinese, it's up to you. If you choose to be closer to your Chinese side, so be it and love your culture for the furutre for your family.
quote:

I see that a lot of you are really narrowing down your options in life as to the kind of life you want to have.


Of course we have to make detailed choices of how my life I want to live! What is so rong with that? It's all about filtering you options. Isn't life all about making choices? Do you take everything you can? I personally think that forcing yourself to live your life with rough filtering is the best way you should try it.
And I AM NOT A RACIST!!! I never proclamed the superiority of the Armenian race or nation! For me all people have good sides and bad ones and we are all equal but different! Don't think I have ideas only for the Armenians... I think that Chinese, Greeks and Lebanese also should get married between them, they have very rich cultures. My parents marriage... I am not my parents, yes I disapprove.
You ask me what's wrong with my other Canadian half? Nothing is wrong. What's the point of the question? What doors do bicultural or tricutural families open? It's all about how you educate your children. I'm sure I can raise Armenian children and make them speak Armenian, French, English and make them know a lot on different cultures, they will have a lot of doors open. Do i really need to get married with someone from another culture to make them discover it? No, I don't think so.
You guys... I understand your point of view but it will change ince you look further in time... try to look 3000 years in the future.

And by the way thanks for the encouragement on my date! It went pretty well. We'll see.

With respect.

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Posted 08 June 2000 - 04:37 PM

By the way! Steve! You talk about "mixed Armenians" as a new race and we bring new ideas! Ideas are not genetic bro.

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Posted 08 June 2000 - 06:36 PM

Sireli Raffi

Of course I am not saying that ideas are genetic, but our experiences as ges hays bring about the new ideas, new perspectives, that I think breath in new life to the Armenian experience. More and more I am very proud and happy to be bi(and even tri counting the Persian)cultural. I used to not be so. I really think you, with all due respect, need to be proud of being Canadian. No matter what you may think you are not 100% Armenian, being bicultural can be a wonderful thing if done properly.

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Posted 09 June 2000 - 06:00 AM

Barev Farsi jan,

Please, expand on what being bicultural meens. Because I can know, understand and even love many cultures but I can devote myself only to one. Because being EVERYBODY is same with being NOBODY.
Here is an example: When I listen to "Summertime" and "The House of Rising sun" I love USA, when listen to "Moscow nights" I love Russia, when I listen to "Gyulisangam" I love Iran, when I listen to Sharl Aznavour I love France, when I listen to "Greensleavs" I love England...
But only "Dele yaman" makes to shiver from rage and dispare and the same time. This is when it hits my soul and not the feelings.

Regards

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Posted 09 June 2000 - 04:37 PM

Sireli Berj

I guess you have to be a half breed like me to truly understand what it is to be bicultural. Its a "ges odar/ ges hay thang!"(sic). I am devoted to the U.S.A first and formost in the sense of who I would go off to battle for. I have never tried to hide that. I live here, my passport says U.S.A on it and I earn my bread and butter here. But Armenian is in my soul. I can't explain it. You seem to always define everything in terms of a war. I look at it in living your everyday life. Maybe because I live without the spectre of the Turks and Azeris ready to pounce that I have this luxury. I have Armenian values, yes despite my being portrayed as a decadent western liberal. Whenever I have food on me, even a dry cookie, I offer it to those around me. That's the Armenian in me. I feel guilty when I waste because I know of the suffering and famine that my ancestors suffered, I honor them by using only what I need. That's the Armenian(and also the American Indian) in me. I am very proud of being Armenian, I tell everyone I encounter that I come from a race with a rich culture. I know to you it seems like I have conflicting allegiances, and I guess I do, but that is me, that is who I am, Astvatz inzi esensa horinel!

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Posted 09 June 2000 - 10:26 PM

Barev Farsi jan,

God gave us options for every situation. Try to have as many children as you can and send your tallest and strongest boy to Armenia. Send him at the age of 14 and let him study here for some 2-3 years. See what he will tell you when he comes back.
I can see that you have many feelings that make your Armenian identity to speak in a loud voice. But as you mentioned you are US citizen and you know your duty towards your country. I respect your feeling. So your motherland is the USA, furthermore, you have native indian blood so it is your motherland twice as much.
I also understand that you want Armenia to be US sided, so that you can fight for both of them. But geopolitics, realpolitic are dirty things and I can assure you that the only thing that stops turks from "cleansing Armenia from kurdish terrorists" is the Russian nuclear threat. I can prove it to you if you want. In history, every time when Armenia sided with the West, turks made an alliance with russians, and Armenia was left on its own. Look what NATO did in Kosovo. Are the Albanians happy? West used Albanians to strike a light blow in a region of Russia's geopolitical interest. It is preparing to do the same in Caucasus using either Azeris, Georgians or us. They are telling us "Die to be our friends". In Armenian it sounds like "Gna meri, ari sirem". Man, let the West try it this time on the territory of Georgia or Azerbaijan. And when they manage it Armenia will side with them very easily. I personaly am ready to die for this, but I don't want another 1 mln Armenian babies and women to die for US geopolitical interest. As for Russia, I don't have illussions about them, but it is not a communist marazmatic country now, and it looks their current president knows what he does.

Regards

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Posted 10 June 2000 - 08:06 AM

Barev Berj

I think you are finally beginning to understand who I am and my position. I agree with you on the U.S. using other countries to strike a blow at Russia, they still consider it their enemy. I think its disgusting when the U.S does these dirty deeds. Though this is my country, I am the first to speak up about the crap it has done.
I am not sure I totally agree with you about Turkey still wanting war with Armenia. From what I have read, Turkey was one of the first countries to recognize Armenia's new found independence, and they have made overtures for trade and diplomatic relations, overtures that were rejected by Armenia. I don't know maybe I only have half the story on this one so I don't want to be dogmatic. I think both Turkey and Armenia need to recognize that the other isn't going to go away. Armenia is filled with dedicated people like you who will fight to the end, and the Turks are not going to pack up and go back to Central Asia!(Though that would be very nice!)

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Posted 10 June 2000 - 09:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by farsisteve:
Barev Berj

I think you are finally beginning to understand who I am and my position. I agree with you on the U.S. using other countries to strike a blow at Russia, they still consider it their enemy. I think its disgusting when the U.S does these dirty deeds. Though this is my country, I am the first to speak up about the crap it has done.
I am not sure I totally agree with you about Turkey still wanting war with Armenia. From what I have read, Turkey was one of the first countries to recognize Armenia's new found independence, and they have made overtures for trade and diplomatic relations, overtures that were rejected by Armenia. I don't know maybe I only have half the story on this one so I don't want to be dogmatic. I think both Turkey and Armenia need to recognize that the other isn't going to go away. Armenia is filled with dedicated people like you who will fight to the end, and the Turks are not going to pack up and go back to Central Asia!(Though that would be very nice!)


Barev Farsi,
There is a possibility of Turkey being devided, but this will happen only in case of Russia's simultanious weakening. If there is strong Russia, Turkey will always stay there for US. The Treaty of Sevr is a perfect example of this. In 1916 Russia was almost destroyed and West was prepared to devide Turkey. Then Russia became strong again and Turkey became a stronghold for the West. This issue will never be solved, because Transcaucasia is the key to world domination for the West, but there are Russia, China, Iran who will opose this severely. This is a matter of a nuclear war and I don't think US wants to take this risk so it uses the smaller countries. But if small countries refuse there will be no option.
I also think that both Turkey and Armenia need to recognize that the other isn't going to go away, but Armenian border must become a Red line for Turkey, no step forward. I don't want that cheap, nomadic culture to penetrate into Armenia and I don't want Armenia to become a relax spot (casinos, whore houses etc.) for turkish businessmen. Iran is a better regonal economic, political and cultural partner for Armenia because we can develop relations on equal basis with them.
Turkey wants to either assimilate or eliminate us, and I want nither of it.

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Posted 10 June 2000 - 09:48 AM

Sireli Steve,

Okay, maybe being mixed have some advantages but personally. When I'll apply for a job, speaking three languages will certainly help me, yes; but what about Armenia, Armenians, the nation? What if every "mixed-armenians" decided to mix and mix and mix? I feel insulted when you tell me " No matter what you may think you are not 100% Armenian", like I don't know. I told you already I'm 50% Armenian by blood and 100% by heart... 100%! Not 45,67%... 100%. This means I feel the courage to suffer for my nation, to do as much as I can to help my people. I decide not to become a North-American with Armenian herotage but to be ARMENIAN... only Armenian and it has nothing to do with age, I have thought about this quite a lot.
I don't think Berj really needs to be half-Armenian to understand you or me, it's not a complex thing. He says, "I can devote myself only to one (culture)." and "EVERYBODY is same with being NOBODY.", I couldn't agree more but hey! how could he know? he's not half-Armenian !
And I have become this way by myself, my parents never talked to me about this, my father never told me to be Armenian, I'm only following my heart which is 100% Armenian and I made a choice and I devote my life to one culture without necessarily rejecting all others.
With respect.

#32 Guest__*

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Posted 13 June 2000 - 09:20 PM

Hey!!... I mean, Barev!

Man, I was kinda sad there for a while when my post wasn't getting attention...but now, I geuss we've sparked some new discussions!
Thanks a lot RAFII Y, I will look into that website, it sounds really really cool, perhaps it'll help me on my search for a chinese-armenian...imagine if I married one? how wierd would that be?!
Anyways, RAFFI Y, let me ask you this question and please answer as honest as you can be!

What made you decide that your Armenian half should prosper over you Canadian half, in order to make sure that your future generations 3000 years from now will be 100% Armenian????????

Also, strangely I see this happening, I beleive that in 3000 years, ethnic groups will be totally abolished, I think the human race will be so alike that genetically there'll be no substantial difference, what with how technology and advanced medecine is changing as already...

Also...STEVE! You're American? funny thing...cause so am I! Where were you born? I was born in Palm Springs California...yup..that dual citizenship we can get will be pretty useful!

Here's a question to everybody who has some kind of Armenian blood running through their hearts:

Knowing what the Turks of 1915 did to Armenia a very long time ago, meaning the Turks of today are not the same as they were in 1915....is it that hard or that easy for you to have relations with someone of Turkish origin??????

Thanks a lot!!!

did you know my chinese name means RESPECT?

Respect to you all!

#33 Guest__*

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Posted 16 June 2000 - 05:51 PM

I wanted to respond to Raffi's messages.
I wanted to tell you that I agree with you 100%. I can't believe that there is someone out there with the same view and mentality as me. Sometimes you feel like you're the only one. You understand and feel the same though. That is so cool. I think that you are very strong to say your opinion even if people don't really agree. Never change that. I am 1/2 Armenian and 1/2 Swedish although I will always be 100% in my heart and soul. I don't know what made me that way because no one ever told me either. I have a sister and she says she is American and doesn't care about Armenian things, but I am completely the opposite. I guess some people are strongly drawn to the culture even if they are not full. I don't want to make it more confusing for me or my children to know their identity and I don't think that your ideas are crazy or racist or whatever. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that someone out there agrees with you and that you are not alone.
Take care.

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Posted 16 June 2000 - 10:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Lauren:
I wanted to respond to Raffi's messages.
I wanted to tell you that I agree with you 100%. I can't believe that there is someone out there with the same view and mentality as me. Sometimes you feel like you're the only one. You understand and feel the same though. That is so cool. I think that you are very strong to say your opinion even if people don't really agree. Never change that. I am 1/2 Armenian and 1/2 Swedish although I will always be 100% in my heart and soul. I don't know what made me that way because no one ever told me either. I have a sister and she says she is American and doesn't care about Armenian things, but I am completely the opposite. I guess some people are strongly drawn to the culture even if they are not full. I don't want to make it more confusing for me or my children to know their identity and I don't think that your ideas are crazy or racist or whatever. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that someone out there agrees with you and that you are not alone.
Take care.


Lauren and Raffi,
Don't ever!!! think that you're alone. May be there are some low intellect Armenians who will tell you that you're mixed and so you're not pure, forgive them, because there are thousands of Armenians like me who will stand by your back in every situation ready to do everything for you. I'm a pure blooded Armenian, but reading what you've posted here, I'm starting to think that that I'm still not Armenian enough. Don't worry, I'll catch up with you guys.

Sicerely

#35 Guest__*

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Posted 17 June 2000 - 07:53 AM

Dear Raffi, I am sorry that I insulted you, I didn't mean to. All I was saying is that you seem to reject your Canadian heritage and proclaim that you are 100% Armenian at heart. I used to say that too when I went through my Armenian power phase. Then I realized that I was only fooling myself. In the words of the song by another famous half Armenian Cher, I am a "Half Breed". Berj is a a one in a million Armenian who is in this respect very open minded and welcoming to half Armenians, ( I used to not think so!). Most Armenians reject us ges Hays as being true Armenians just read some of the hate filled responses of Arman toward me on this forum. I find that Americans also do not totally accept me because I am a foreigner in many ways to them. Thus my identity is a unique one, not quite Armenian, not quite American. This is similar to the Mestizo identity of the Mexicans who are not quite Spanish, but no longer totally Indian, but a new "raza."

Dear Oliver, yes I am American on my dad's side, however, to further complicate matters I was born in Iran!

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Posted 17 June 2000 - 10:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
Dear Proud

I think that is very sad that you would give up possible happiness for yourself with a non-Armenian because of tradition and clannishness. There is no guarantee that even if you married an Armenian that your children would maintain Armenian ways, especially if you are living outside of Armenia. I am half Odar, and I am way more Armenian than some of my "pure" Armenian cousins. As for liking Armenian music, there are many odars that love Armenian food, music, traditions, so I don't see why you couldn't listen to Harout Pamboukjian.


Yes farsisteve, there are lots of odars who like to enjoy the things Armenian culture has to offer, but you can't take the pleasure without the pain. Armenianness is this: suffering. Our whole history is a suffering, this is established in the Armenian sub-conscious. Do the odars know this? Do they wanna enjoy this too? Hayun tsave, hayun gyanke ches garogh arhamarhes haygagan udelikov yev yerajshdutyamp.
It will be an insult to you and to your culture if you marry an odar and expect him/her to appreciate and understand you. They will only mock you like that. They will eat your food, but will they remember the first genocide of the 20th century? Will they feel all the suffering your people have felt in order to stay what they are:Armenian ??????

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Posted 17 June 2000 - 07:48 PM

Arman D.

I know your last post was directed towards fairsteve, but I cannot dismiss the fact upon how shocking your response was.

"It will be an insult to you and to your culture if you marry an odar and expect him/her to appreciate and understand you."

I'm sorry, but what do you mean by this? I understand that a little less then a hundred years ago, Armenia suffered great deals, but to marry a non-armenian would only degrade yourself and your people even more??? what's up with that!?
I can obviously see that you're a very angry person deep inside. You to not accept the fact that others do not, can not, won't ever, share your pain, is pretty close minded. Yes, it the genocide did happen, but you learn to move on, I'm not saying to forget about it forever! No, not at all, but please don't let it run your life!
Just cause the rest of the world wasn't directly involved in the genocide (In your perspective) doesn't mean you have to put down the rest of the world cause of that....the Armenian genocide is one of many around the world, where in some cases more people died...

What would you say if you met someone like this?

#38 Guest__*

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Posted 17 June 2000 - 07:50 PM

Arman, enkan apush yev esh martes! Who the hell are you? I suppose my mother insulted her people because she married an odar? I am so sick of you and your idiotic crap! My mom is very Armenian and I am very proud of her, and I am very glad she married an odar! Good for her in marrying the person she loved instead of some old,chauvinist Armenian who would make her a slave to cook, clean and pop out babies!

And I suppose Armenians are the only people who have suffered? You are so stupid and blind! What about the Jews? What about the Irish? What about the Gipsies? WHat about the American Indians? On and on I could go. Suffering is not exclusive to the Armenian people you idiot! Aveli lav gelni vor ko beranut gokhbes apush!

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Posted 17 June 2000 - 09:11 PM

Eshak Arman:From having read your stupid responses, I bet you live here in the U.S! Why don't you go to live in your beloved Hayastan? Yeah right, you're not going to give up the easy life here. So much for the suffering Armenian! You are a typical hypocrite Armenian who whines about Yerevan while living the good life here in the U.S. I bet you are also milking the system, getting some kind of benefits or something like so many of the Armenians here. Go back to Armenia! You don't deserve to live in a nation as good as the U.S.A! Gna het, enkanes sirum ko Hayastan! Geghtsavor!

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Posted 17 June 2000 - 09:14 PM

To Arman

From having read your lame responses I bet you live here in the U.S! Inchu vor het ches etum Hayastan? Enkanes adum Amrika, aveli lav gelni vor etas! Geghtsavores! Apush!




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