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#1 Arpa

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Posted 24 January 2004 - 08:52 PM

The earliest mention of the Caucasus is found in the myth of Prometheus. See below.
To the Greeks the Caucasus was the end of the world on the east just as the Mediterranean was in the west. Understanbadly the Armenians at times called the mountains "erknaqer lerner", the "skyscraping mountains". The name Caucasus is from the Greek "Kavxasos" believed to be the hellenized form of the Iranian "kap koh" (big mountain).
The paragraph below is from this site; http://rbedrosian.com/Gmyth.htm
"Myths Concerning the Caucasus and the "Land of the Arimi"

Eastern Asia Minor and the Caucasus appear in the myths of two related deities, Prometheus and Hephaestus, who are primarily gods of metallurgy. The story of Prometheus is one of few Greek myths to mention the Caucasus directly: Prometheus was chained to a cliff on a mountain in the Caucasus, sometimes identified with Mt. Elburz. Sources for this myth are Hesiod (8th-7th century B.C.) and later authors, especially the drama Prometheus Bound by Aeschylus (ca. B.C. 525-456). According to these accounts, Prometheus was a son of the Titan Iapetus. All the Titans had been defeated by Zeus except for Prometheus who had been neutral in the battle Zeus fought against the pre-Olympian deities. As the new law-giver and ruler of the universe, Zeus resolved to destroy humanity and create a better race."

============

"All Caucasia, which embraces not only the Great Mountains of Caucasus proper but also the country to the north and to the south of the Great Caucasian Range, is being designated by the common term "Caucasus". This is a Latinized form of the ancient Greek name for this region "Kaukasos". The Greek term may in turn be traced back to Old Iranian "kap kah" which means 'Big Mountain'. The ancient nomenclature reflects the historical importance of the area where Europe and Asia converge. Ancient Greeks made the Great Mountain Range the scene of the mythical sufferings of Prometheus, and the Argonauts sought the Golden Fleece in the mysterious land of Colchis on the Black Sea coast, south of the Range."

The Armenian parallel Prometheus is the myth of Artavazd.
The folklore about the mythical king has come down to us from the gousans of Goghtn via Khorenatsi.
You be the judge. Who learned it from whom? Did the Greeks modeled their Prometheus base on our myth or visa versa?

At the death of his father, King Artashes I, many pagan rites and festivities were performed which dsiturbed the heir Artavazd who expressed his dissatisfaction saying; "When you departed you took the entire world with you. Who shall I reign over in these ruins?" For this impertinence the dead king cursed his son with these words; "When you go hunting riding your horse up the Azat Mountain Masis, may the Qajk(qajer)** capture you and imprison you at the summite of the mountain where you may not see light again". The curse is realized and Artavazd is captured, chained and kept in a cave where two dogs constantly licked and chewed the chains trying to free him, but for every chewing of the dogs the ironsmiths' hit of the mallet would reenforce the chains again. Even on Sundays, the day of rest the ironworkers would still hit their anvil a few times.
It is also believed that those are the same dogs that we know as "haralez" or "aralez" that Shamiram employed to lick her beloved Ara back to life.

**I may write about the "qajk" as well some day. Even if we use the word "qaj" to mean brave in fact the origin is not so noble.

Edited by Arpa, 24 January 2004 - 09:03 PM.


#2 ED

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 01:31 AM

Thank you Arpa

I often wondered why do we have/had so many words beginning with AR, I think members here also might want to get acquainted with our past, Myths/Facts, and origins of our people, so I came across this web site I like to share with you.



The first god in Armenia was one of the language’s first sounds, ‘AR’, which means sun or light. As the source of life, the sun became equated with power and the supreme god.


Ararat is mentioned as early as ca. 6000 BC in the Sumerian epoch poem Gilgamesh, as the land of the mountains where the gods live. The word Ararat can be divided into three words: AR-AR-AT. AR-AR being a plural form or all encompassing god; ‘AT’ being an archaic version of the Armenian word ‘hat’, which means ‘a piece of’. Thus Ararat meant ‘a piece of gods, or a piece of creation.


Early symbols for gods are closely connected with astral symbols. The first use of the sacred swastika and cross are found in ca. 20,000-15,000 BC inscriptions in the Geghama Mountain Range. Carvings dating back to ca. 8500 BCE show symbols associated with astronomy, giving them a god like prominence: the sun, moon, and constellations were thought to be deities in themselves, and astral occurrences such as an eclipse or a comet were considered communication from the gods.


By the 5th millennium BC, Ancestral Armenians combined sun worship with sophisticated astronomy. They are now credited with assigning the constellations of the zodiac their design and names, and creating one of the first solar calendars based on 365 days in the year.


Also around the 5th millennium BC a series of Vishaps (Dragon Stones) began to be erected on mountainsides throughout Armenia, near water sources. At first resembling fish (dragons in Armenian were thought to be huge fishlike creatures, something like a cross between a whale and a gigantic squid), the monolithic stones were later carved with snakes, the heads of beasts, swastikas and crosses.


Around 3000 BC, Ancestral Armenians had created a specific iconography and pantheon of the gods. The Armenian gods were still centered on the worship of the sun, but by the Urartian period, they resembled Mesopotamian and Egyptian deities based on animal-human combinations.


Human deities emerged during the Armenian Hellenistic period. Though bearing remarkable likeness to Greek gods and goddesses, which first gave speculation as to their Greek origins, it is now thought that many of the Greek gods are actually inherited from Ancestral Armenian sources, with some coming from as far away as India. The heroic legends of Hercules, for example, were first attributed to the legend of the Armenian king-god Haik in the 3rd millennium BC.


Pantheon of Armenian gods
The Armenian god or goddess is listed with the Greek equivalent deity in parenthesis.


Aramazd (Zeus) - The father of all gods and goddesses, the creator of heaven and earth. The first two letters in his name, "AR" is the Indo-European root for sun, light, and life. Aramazd was the source of earth’s fertility, making it fruitful and bountiful. The celebration in his honor was called Am'nor, or New Year, which was celebrated on March 21 in the old Armenian calendar (also the Spring equinox).


Anahit (Artemis) - The goddess of fertility and birth, in early period she was the goddess of war. By the 1st c. BCE she was the main deity in Armenia.


Nuneh (Athena) - The goddess of wisdom, common sense, motherhood and protector of the home, keeper of the family.


Vahagan (Hephaestus) - The god of thunder, clouds and fire. Comes from "Vah" -god, "Agne" - fire. Vahagan is the constellation Orion.


Astghik (Aphrodite) - The goddess of love and beauty, symbolized by skylight. She was the wife or lover of Vahagan, the god of fire and metal. She was also the goddess of water. The celebration in her honor occurred in mid June and was called Vardevar. It is still celebrated in Armenia by pouring water on unsuspecting passersby.


Ara Geghetsik- "Ara the Beautiful’- the god of spring, flora, agriculture, sowing and water. He is associated with Isis, Vishnu and Dionysus, as the symbol of new life.


Haik - a king, but in legend the father of Armenia. He slew the Babylonian god Bel, which in history was Nemruth, the Babylonian king described in the bible as attempting to build the tower of Babel. Haik’s armies invaded Babylon, and establish the kingdom from which Armenians claim their heritage. The legend of Haik is the forerunner of the legend of Hercules.


Tsovinar, Nar - The goddess of water, sea, rain. She was a fire creature, who forced the rain and hail to fall from the heavens with her fury.


Vanatur - the god of hospitality and bountiful hosts.


Tir (Apollo) - the god of literature, science and art, also an interpreter of dreams.


Tork Angegh (Aries) - the god of power, bravery, war, the military.


Aralez - One of the oldest gods in the Armenian pantheon, Aralez was a god in the form of a dog, whose powers included the ability to resurrect the dead by licking wounds clean.


http://www.tacentral....asp?story_no=2

#3 ED

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 01:49 AM

some place names of Armenia, origins..............very interesting


http://www.tacentral....asp?story_no=9

Myths include the naming of cities and regions in Armenia beginning with Haik and continuing through his offspring.


Thus Haik's son Armenak, who went northeast of the land of Haik (Van), settled in 'a valley surrounded by huge mountains with rivers flowing from the west, the waters gushed forth from under rocks at the foot of the mountain, and joined together into rivers. The high mountains were snow-covered in the sun.' Armenak settled in the valley and developed its northern end. He gave the tallest mountain, 'which was youngest among the others', the name Aragats, and the city at its base Aragatsotn (the foot of Aragats).
Armenak had a son named Aramais, who built a city called Armavir on the banks of a river he named Yeraskh (a Persian corruption of Arax). Aramais' son Amassia, settled in Armavir, and had three sons, Paroyr, Gegham and Kholagh. The latter two had cities at the foot of Ararat named after them. Amassia also gave the name "Massis" to Mt. Ararat.


Gegham had a son (they all had sons) named Armai. Leaving his son (they all leave their sons) at Armavir, Gegham went north to a land next to a lake (Sevan) and there built a city (Lechashen). He called this city Gegh, and gave the lake his own name (Geghamalich). There, his son Sissak was born, who became renowned for his nobility, pride and dignity, as well as for his strength, eloquence and skill as an archer. Gegham gave him many possessions and slaves. Together with lands that stretched from the sea east of his country to the valley where the river Yerash (Arax) descended in fury after having cut through the mountains into forested straits. Sissak settled there, giving it the name of Siunik.
Gegham returned to the valley at the foot of the mountain. He built a city on the steep slopes and named it Geghama after himself. This city was later called Garni after his grandson Garnik.


To Gegham's son Armai, Aram was born. Aram's martial prowess was admired by all in his realm, and his fame spread throughout the land; it was a tribute to him and his skill sin subjugating his enemies that his people were called Armenians and their country Armenia.

#4 Stormig

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 03:56 AM

Arpa, what is mentioned as Colchis or Colchida is modern-day Georgia and/or Abkhazia. That they sought the Golden Fleece there (or that it is related as such) alludes to the perhaps now depleted gold in that land. Mt. Elbruz would be within this region or on its border. Mind you, this geography has little if anything to do with historical Armenia. In fact, the parallels of the Greek myth of Prometheus, among others, exist within the many nations of the Caucasus, too, not just among Armenian records. For that you may refer to John Colarusso's book, "Nart Sagas from the Caucasus." He collected these recitations (passed down through the generations, for these people have had no writing of their own) and brought them all together according to nation/tribe. It would have been an even finer piece if he had gone beyond the tiny nations into Armenia and Georgia and such. (I'm not sure but I think in the preface he did mention having neglected that part because it was out of the scope of his linguistic abilities?) I would think that it was the Greeks, who colonised and traded in the Black Sea coast, that would have appropriated these from the Caucasus (not Armenia, which is in the south of this region, alone) and not vice versa, for who among all the tiny nations of the Caucasus could have been interested in learning and reciting Greek? It was the Greeks who were a refined, literate, and, well, researching people. At any rate, I have little doubt that the Greeks got it from the Caucasus, for, when reading the sagas, they seemed to be more inter-related and seemed to make a little more sense to me. But I can't vouch by this statement of mine, I'd have to re-read that and Edith Hamilton's "Greek Mythology" again to be sure. I think above all it's just simply amazing, most of all that these myths in the Caucasus survived centuries of kneading within oral history.
On a side note, one funny thing you notice when reading the book is that the narrators when telling their stories would have their characters/heroes greet the others with a "Salam aleykum!" - as some of these nations have been Muslim for a couple of centuries now and one (the Ubykh) has gone extinct in Turkey. Too bad the old ways of the ancient world didn't last long enough for historical/literary curiosity to catch up. Or, sod the invading armies that burned down libraries. mad.gif

#5 Arpa

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 07:51 AM

Note:Hi Garo, Movses et al.
I have expressed this wish before.I wish our administrators and moderators would consider creating a subject topic dedicated exclusively to MYTHOLOGY where we can contribute without the risk of the thred being hijacked and turned into debates about Genocide did did not happen or turn into gender bender arguments. A special topic where all these posts about mythology can be amassed and eventually turn into complete treatise about Armenian Mythology.
Thank you!!
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Thank you Edward and Stormig for your comments and contributions. As mentioned above all these posts can be grouped under one roof.
I thought I was having a latent dream this morning. When I aired the above post it was mainly because of Edith Hamilton's book Mythology- Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes. Thank you Storm! smile.gifsmile.gif It had nothing to do with SS Colin Powell's trip to Tbilisi , yet when I woke up to the radio at NPR BBC was on and they wre talking about Prometheus, the Golden Fleece and the Caucasus (they took meticulous care to not mention the "A" word/name, they mention Azerbaijan, Turkey, Ossetia, Abkhazi but not even a hint about Yerevan, Akhakalak etc. Shut me up! See how I am hijacking the subject and turning it into a political debate Enough!!!)

Of course the myth of Prometheus is about the Caucasus, and that Armenia is not, never has been that intimately connected to the mountain range except that th Geghama Range where Lake Sevan is may be the sounthernmost baranch of th Caucasus. We know that our Sacred Mountain is Masis and not ElBruz. My purpose in airing the above and juxtaposing Artavazd to Prometheus was ro show that we also have pantheon of "gods and heroes", be they original native or fashioned after othe peoples' mythology, it nevetheless has its own native Armenian flavor, nomeclature and geography, i.e Masis instead of Olympus etc. I Have been trying my darndest to draw attention to our folklore and mythology, with little success a times. Can we blame that on the Turk and the Genocide that has us so paralyzed that we cannot speak about anything but? Open the Subject topic of Genocide in this forum and see for yourself. Can we talk about things without mentioning the T word, or even the J word? Ooops! See? Apparently even I can't!! It hurts me when we Armenians know so much about Greek, Egyptian, Nordic and Icelandic sagas yet dismiss our own as ancient MYTH, pagan, anti Christian etc. Of course it is ancient, sure it is MYTH, but then again aren't the others, the Greek, the Egyptian also ancient and pagan? They have turned their "pagan" past into billion dollar industry, yet even today, after 2000 years we are still at an iconoclastic binge trying to bury Ara, Artavazd, Tork, Anahit and Vahakn in the dustbin of history. Are we ashamed of our past? Why? Is anybody preaching to go back to our ancient pagan religion? Is anybody preaching religion? The hell with all of them!! Mythology is not a religion. Even if a major part of the so called modern religions is based on myth. If mythology can be dismissed as unscientific today during its heyday it was considered (quasi)-science, trying to explain the origin and the reason of things, just as astrology and alchemy were. (An aside. Stormig, I found it compelling where Edith Hamilton says that the Greeks did not practice astrology, but rather astronomy, that astrology was practiced by the eastern civilzations like the Asyyrian and Babylonian. Armenians, the incurable hellenophiles don't have an extensive astrological heritage either. Another revelation by Edith that caught my attention is that wherease the eatern cultures had gods of fantastic dimension who more often than not were at least pasrt beast, the Greek gods were all totally human with the exception of Satyr etc. So is Armenian myhtology where all the characters are totally human with the exception of the Haralez. BTW. Edward, read about the Egyptian Anubis, dog gods of embalning. Do Aralez fit in the the concept of embalming, i.e preserving the dead for eventual "resurrection"?)

I am ranting again.

Edward, thank you for your comments. I am familiar with those sites. However, if it is the last thing I do I would like to gather all those sites, some of which are erroneous, prejudiced and incomplete, put them together, compare, eliminate repetitions, examine under a modern micropscope and make it a work that can be presented to world without shame or embarassment.
You will understand what I mean from below, where Martiros Gavoukjian(that mk turkifying J again!!) Who at times seems to use a very "broad brush". Broad or not he does stimulate to at least look into things with a fresh perspective as the world has changed so much since Khorenatsi and even since Hubschmann.

You can see the below quote and more here; http://www.angelfire...Azgaser/AR.html


AR-ARA
It has been shown by some Orientalist- Armenologists in a number of quotations of mythological and historical datat that the native people of the Armenian Highland and the neighboring regions of Asia Minor had, in the earlier periods of paganism, a deity whom they called AR or ARA.
In the primitive hunting stage of the life of these natives, the god ARA possesed animal-vegetal charactheristics. Later, with the beginning of agriculture, he acquired a vegetal-solar nature and with the development of irrigation in agriculture and the consolidation of statehood, he became a great war-god and was identified with the sun.

This process of change from primitive to complex characteristics, as manifested in the nature of AR(or ARA), is by no means unique in the mythological history of mankind. It has had its close parallels.

For example, the god Assur,in the earliest periods of the founding of the city of Assur, had a vegetal (peaceful) nature, but later on, when Assyria became a mighty empire by bloody expeditions, it turned into a fearsome deity and was identified also with sun. Research has revealed that inthe remote past AR (or ARA)was the principal national deity of the Armen people. H.Matikian, N.Adonts, M.Abeghian, G.Ghapantsian, and ohter Armenologists accept that ARA was the native deity of the Armenians.

The known Orientalist A.H.Sayce states that AR was the sun-god of the Armenians. In his words:"...it is better to suppose that ER,or ARA,was an Armenian name for the Sun-god, which in later times was confounded with Arios (Nergal)of Ktesias."

In this connection H.Matikian writes:"To study ARA the Beautifu means to make inroads into the obscure centuries of the origin of the Armenian people and to examine them."

The word Ar-ma-ni is a compound noun, where the first component Ar is none other than the name of the natioanal sun-god of the Armens,-AR- and the second component -ma-(me a varient) ssignifies 'build, make, beget, offspring, son'. Ma, with this meaning, was known to many peoples of the Ner East in antiquity. The goddess of birth and fertility, so well known in Asia Minor, was called by this very same name-Ma.(Ma also occurs in its reduplicated from -Mama or Mami in Assyro-Babylonian inscriptions). This root-word (and also its variant -me) is found also in Sumerian language with the same meaning. It results that Ar-ma (and its variant Ar-me) means 'built by Ar, born of Ar', or 'Ar's offspring', 'Ar's/Ara's son' ('the son of the sun', Arevvordi). The ending -ni (the plural-forming or toponymic suffix-ni is found in Subarian-Hurrian-Nairian place and tribal na We find the plural form ni also in Armenian.

It is not unlikely that those of the third millenium B.C. could have Sumerian origin derived from the plural form -e-ne reserved for persons) of Arma-ni (or Arme-ni), as has been mentioned earlier, is plural and toponymic suffix (cf. Mitanni, Supani, Alzini 'Alzinini', Daiaeni, Nihani, etc.).

Hence Armani (or Armeni) means 'sons of Ar', that is, 'sons of the sun' or 'the land of the sons of Ar', which is literally 'the land of the sons of the sun'. A similar case is seen in the Armenian words Hayk' and Virk which by virtue of the plural- forming suffix k' mean, respectively, 'Armenians' and 'Georgians' and also 'the land of Armenians (Armenia)' and 'the land of Georgians (Georgia)'.

Just as the name Arma-ni appears simply as Arma, without the suffix -ni, in the Alalakh inscriptions, so does it in the form Arme in the Assyrian and Urartian writtings.

Since, as it was mentioned above, Ar-ma or Ar-me meant 'built by Ar' (the city or country of Ar), or 'the offspring (or the son) of Ar', and since Ar was also called Ara, it follows that the name Arme could have been pronounced also as Arame, which is, as we already know, the name of the founder of Urartian kingdom, meaning 'the son of the sun', and is preserved by Khorenantsi in the form Aram, as the name of one of the Armenian patriarchs.

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If and when the administrators decide to create a separate category of MYTHOLOGY we can move this and many others by me and others. Movses can also create a site in his Armenians.com besides his poetry etc.
Time is running out, once Turkey accomplishes to once and for all raze, bury and flood all those places our history and myhtology is based all these names of places and personnages will be long forgotten. Then they can surely say all these are a figment of our imagination.

#6 Stormig

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 12:06 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Jan 25 2004, 01:51 PM)
When I aired the above post it was mainly because of Edith Hamilton's book Mythology

Stand corrected - yes, it's just Mythology.

#7 ED

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Posted 26 January 2004 - 11:11 PM

Arpa,

As I was surfing thru Armenian mythology links on the net, came across this site.
Take a look I think everyone should look into this. Very interesting indeed!

http://www.armrockart.nt.am/index.htm

#8 shield-maiden

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 05:18 AM

These are a few links that I've found on the net that make mention of Armenian mythology.



This one's a fairly recent (1997) journal article relating to the Aram myth. It’s in Armenian, but there’s a summary in English provided at the end. http://www.iatp.am/r.../aram/index.htm

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

These are from pantheon.org (an online encyclopedia of myths and deities). There’s not much description provided, but it does list a number of Armenian/Urartian gods & goddesses. And, a few Hittite & Hurrian ones thrown in for good measure.

http://www.pantheon....&terms=armenian

http://www.pantheon....0&terms=armenia

http://www.pantheon....&Terms=urartian

http://www.pantheon....0&Terms=hittite

http://www.pantheon....0&Terms=hurrian

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

“Soma among the Armenians”: http://rbedrosian.com/soma.htm


I only skimmed through the article, but it looked pretty interesting (in regards to Arm. Mythology)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



It's seems like there's next to nothing being written on Armenian myths. I looked far and wide for any books dealing with the pre-Christian era when I was in Armenia last summer, but couldn't find anything that I didn't already own (from what little was even available). This probably won't ever happen, but I'd love it if Armenian, and earlier Soviet, archaeological journals could be made available in an online database someday.

#9 Arpa

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 01:09 PM

Տորք Գեղադէմ

Tork the Handsome

Is this what he looked like?

http://www.google.co...G=Google Search

Which one?
Take a pick.
I don’t think so, he was much more handsome.

Տորք Անգեղ եւ Հայկանուշ Գեղեցիկ
Ղազարոս Աղայան

Երգ Առաջին

Շատ դարեր առաջ հին Հայաստանում
Տորք-Անգեղ անվամբ մի մարդ էր կենում:
Տորքը չէր նման հասարակ մարդու,
Այլ մի աժդահա եւ շատ ահարկու.
Աչքերը կարծես մի մի կապույտ ծով,
Ճաճանչավորված արեվի լուսով,
Սեւ-սեւ ունքերը մութ ամպի նման
Բարդ-բարդ կուտակված աչքերի վրան
Քիթը կորընթարթ, իբրեւ մի բլուր,
Ատամներն ուրագ, եղունքները թուր.
Կուրծքը կասենաս մի լանջ է լեռան,
Մեջքը սարաժայռ, կռները գերան,
Մի խոսքով մի դեւ եւ ոչ թէ հսկա,
Ոչ ոք տեսած չէր այնպէս աժդահա:
Տգեղ էր դեմքը եւ այդքան դաժան,
Որ զարհուրոըմ էր, ով նայում էր վրան.
Ահռելի էր նա եւ այնքան ուժեղ,
Որ հիսուն գոմէշ չունէին մէկտեղ:

It is a lengthy epic poem, One of the most tender love stories of all times, reminiscent of the movie Shrek, which could have very well been based on the Tork Saga.

We read in the overture of the poem;

Ասում է “Հայկանուշ դու ես իմ սէրը.
Կամ ինձ այս գերանով զարկիր, սպանիր,
Եւ կամ իմ խնթիրքըս լսիր, ընդունիր”:




The following paragraph is from here;


http://www.matenadar...age/literature/

OLD ARMENIAN LITERATURE
Poghos Khachatryan, Doctor of Philology



Philology/Բանասիրութիւն?

Is that why many of us run as far as we can from that chiildish/kindergarten depiction of our heritage?
With "philologists" that don't know where their A**es and V*r*ks are?
In the Armenian language anggh/անգղ also mean vulture, that dirty bird of prey;

http://www.birdinfo....keyVulture.html

Which came first, the vulture/chicken or the egg?
Was the bird named for the region or visa versa?

The myths tell about the hero Hayk, the forefather Aram, Tork Angegh (Ugly Tork), Ara Geghetsik (Handsome Ara) and Shamiram, Vahagn Vishapakagh (Vahagn the Dragonkiller). Handsome and broad-shouldered Hayk, with his happy-looking eyes and strong arms is a giant using bow and arrow by description very similar to the Greek Orion, who was the son

The above author is one of the directors of Matenadaran.
Where did he earn his title of a philologist? At the “ugly” University of Istanbul?
Does he not know that in the Armenian language we do NOT use “angegh”, except, as indicated before, in a poetic license , if needed for a rhyme, to mean “ugly”, we use “tgegh”.
Imagine an official site disseminating such cheap scholarship!
Some time ago I wrote to the author to please amend his article. I got no response.
Is the site still alive and active?
Cheap scholarship?
Cheap play on words?
As young boys we would call our friends who may have been a little bigger than us, who may have had exaggerated features- “Tork Angegh”, in loving friendship, mind you. A “cheap play on words”? A barakhagh/բարախաղ/ pun?
What place does pun have in scholarship?
It belongs in the humor department.
Of course!
Everything predating 301 AD is ugly, including Aramazt, Anahit, Vahagn and Astghik.
Why are we so ashamed of our heritage that we need to denigrate and ridicule it?
Tork was a god, perhaps a real person on whose legacy the House of Torgom was established. Anggh/Angegh was a town where the cult of Tork was observed and temples were maintained. Tork is not “angegh/tgegh/ugly, he is Tork Ageghia, meaning Tork of/from Aaggh/Angegh..The region is well defined and at the present there are/were towns and villages of the same name, both in historical and modern Armenia.
During the Arab occupation the region was known as “Angili”.
And now, another play on words.
Let us substitute the Armenian “gh” with that of the Latin L and see what we get.
Angegh……angel?
Don’t you wish we had more “angels” of the kind?



http://www.noravank.am/?l=1&d=10&f=36

Այս առումով ծագում է ոչ պակաս կարևորություն ունեցող մի այլ հարց. եղե՞լ է արդյոք հայ հոգևոր պատկերացումներում «հրեշտակ» կամ սրան մերձեցող հասկացություն։ Հարցի համատեքստում հետաքրքրական պիտի լինի վերստին անդրադարձն ավելի վաղ կրոնական պատկերացումներին՝ նախնիների պաշտամունքի համատեքստում։ Մտորումների տեղիք է տալիս Տորք Անգեղի հանգամանքը, որը պաշտվում էր իբրև աստվածություն [42] և որի անունը նույնպես կարող է դիտվել որպես էթնոնիմ՝ Թորգոմ անվան հետ առնչության առումով, ինչը լիովին աչքաթող են արել հայ գիտնականները, ներառյալ Ն.Ադոնցը, Լեոն, Մ.Աբեղյանն ու այլոք։ Մինչդեռ Մ.Աբեղյանն ինքն էլ կարող էր հանգել այս եզրակացությանը՝ իր իսկ նշած այն փաստից, որ Տորքը «պաշտված է եղել […] Հայաստանի հարավային մասում, Եփրատից մինչև Վանա ծովը, ուր ընկնում է նաև Անգեղ գավառը» [33, էջ 38]։ Իսկ նշված այս տարածքը անվանվում էր Թեգարամա կամ Թոգորմա [23, էջ 196]։ Դա Թորգոմի աստվածաշնչյան անունն է եբրայերեն և հունարեն տառադարձությամբ։ Հայոց դյուցազնի անվանը կցված «Անգեղ» որոշիչը մեկնաբանվում է իբրեւ «տգեղ»։ Հսկա և տգեղ բնութագրերի գումարումով Տորքը պիտի որ պատկերացվեր հրեշավոր արտաքինով։ Սակայն «Անգեղ» բառի ընկալումն իբրև «տգեղ» ամենևին վստահելի չէ։ Ազգային դյուցազնը սովորաբար չի օժտվում նեգատիվ որակներով, այլ հակառակը, նրան վերագրվում են գերդրական հատկանիշներ, որոնք վերաբերում են նաև արտաքին նկարագրին։ Մ.Աբեղյանը նշում է, որ Տորք անվանը կցված «Անգեղեայ» մասնիկը «նշանակում է ծագում», բայց մի՞թե սա չի հուշում, որ «Անգեղեայ» մակդիրով շեշտվել է Տորքի պատկանելությունը որոշակի դասին։ Ո՞րն է այդ «դասը»։ Մ.Աբեղյանը նշում է նաև, որ «Անգեղ» անունը «տոտեմական ծագում ունի (թռչուն)» [23, էջ 484]։ Հիշեցնենք, որ քրիստոնեական պատկերացումներում հրեշտակները հայտնվում են մարդկանց մարդակերպ կամ թռչունի տեսքով (հավանաբար, իմաստների այս ներթափանցումով էլ ծագել է «անգղ» բառը)։ Ուստի ավելի հավանական է «անգեղ» մակդիրն ընթերցել որպես «angel» բառի հնդեվրոպական տառադարձություն՝ լ-ղ հնչյունափոխությամբ, որը միայն հայերենում է պահպանվել (Սոլոմոն-Սողոմոն, Լուկաս-Ղուկաս, Պաւղոս-Պօղոս, псалм-սաղմոս ևն)։ Հետևաբար, «անգեղ» մակդիրի վերծանումն իբրև «տգեղ»՝ հետագա վերաիմաստավորման արգասիք է, որով ազգային դյուցազնին վերագրվել է արտաքուստ հրեշավոր մի կերպար։ Բայց նրան պաշտել են որպես աստվածություն, այսինքն, ինչպես այլ «դիցն», նա, ըստ «դիցն» հասկացության վերոշարադրյալ իմաստավորման, դիտարկվել է երկնային աննյութ ոգիների շարքում2, իսկ «հրեշտակ» հայկական բառն էլ, ի դեպ, պահպանել է նաեւ «անգեղ»-ի հիշյալ տոտեմական իմաստը՝ «թեւավոր» [43, էջ 140]։
Հաջորդ խնդիրը, որին պետք է անդրադառնանք, Անահիտ

Edited by Arpa, 19 October 2005 - 03:24 PM.


#10 MosJan

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 05:00 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Jan 25 2004, 06:51 AM)
Note:Hi Garo, Movses et al.
I have expressed this wish before.I wish our administrators and moderators would consider creating a subject topic dedicated exclusively to MYTHOLOGY where we can contribute without the risk of the thred being hijacked and turned into debates about Genocide did did not happen or turn into gender bender arguments. A special topic where all these posts about mythology can be amassed and eventually turn into complete treatise about Armenian Mythology.
Thank you!!
---------



Kneres cheyi tesel

Lav e Ush qan Yerbeq apricot.gif
inchu che - togh lini

#11 MosJan

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 05:24 PM

now all i need Arpa jan - for you to PM me all the topics that need to be moved to this forum - just the links

#12 Arpa

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 03:01 AM

QUOTE (MosJan @ Oct 19 2005, 11:24 PM)
now all i need Arpa jan - for you to PM me all the topics that need to be moved to this forum - just the links


Thank you Mosjan very much.
I do think that the subject does need a separate category.
I will try and find the relevent posts that need to be moved.
In the meantime, may I ask one more small favor of you?
My idea to create a separate subtopic was so we could post articles solely about the subject rather than placing it under many varied topics, however my hope was that it would be in the realm of culture rather than religion, even if there may be much mythology in most and all religions and visa versa, not to mention tht there is so much intermingling of religion and politics, I would much rather keep the two separate. Besides many among us do deliberately avoid going to the topic of religion except when it is absolutely warranted.
So, my plea. Can I ask you one more time to move the category to the Culture section?
We may want to wait and see what others have to say about the subject.
Once again, thank you very much MosJan.
You are a ***** smile.gif : No, strike that! You are an ISHKHAN!!
Now, we will release you into the Sevan and repopulate it with millions of MosJans
smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

Edited by Arpa, 20 October 2005 - 03:17 AM.


#13 Arpa

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 03:23 AM

One more thing.
Now we neede graphics, pictures, drawings, paintings, scans.
This may be a stimulus to our artists and cyber-geeks to create.
How about it Armat, Arvetaket et al?
I hate to tell you how much I tried to find a depiction of Tork. After many days of searching I finally succumbed to those ugly graphics above, created by the Japanese no less.
I could not find one picture of that statue of Tork that I have seen on the way to Kanaker(?)
I may be able to find the likenes of Anahit and Haik but beyond that???
My depiction of Tork woud be something btween Shrek and this;

http://www.sptimes.c...s/xprs-hulk.jpg

But neither of them does justice to that gentle giant, as Shrek is too cartoonic and comical.

Edited by Arpa, 20 October 2005 - 03:42 AM.





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