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Consciousness The Spectator


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Poll: Consciousness the spectator

Is consciousness more than a spectator?

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#1 DominO

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 12:38 AM

In the past month I have tried to find a place to consciousness in evolution without success. I see this as that; what function does consciousness have, more particularly its self-awarness element (and not the computational stimula/reaction interaction) does have in evolution?

We know that only few species have advanced consciousness like humans and there are some way to test that. The mirror test is the most practical. If we mark for example a chimp back, somewhere it can't see and that we present that chimp a mirror after seeing that mark on the mirror it will touch with its hand that mark knowing that the image in the mirror is him. From this, we could assume that we have indeed found a role to advanced consciousness/self awarness.

But, who is to tell? That chimp touching with its hand that mark could only be a sign of an evolved brain. We can program a robot I guess to view its reflection in the mirror and touch itself without having to be self aware. Thosefor, we could assume that since a chimp having a developped brain may very well be programmed through natural selection to have an image of itself without having to be self aware. The question is. Is there anything at all that this chimp could not do if it weren't self aware? If we consider it to be an automat and we view all its reactions as answers to stimulis and complex processing, I came to the conslusion that no, there is nothing.

We could extend this to humans and arrive to the same conclusion, self awarness could very well be there as a spectator giving the illusion that it is the one deciding everything when it is not at all. It is true that many things do not necessarly have a role and that self-awarness could have just appeared during evolution not advantaging neither disadvanging species.

While self awarness may not have a role by itself in a monouniverse system, it is the result of an orderly process which would require multiple universes and an universal natural selection, and I think does have a role when introducing those two elements into the picture. smile.gif I just LOVE that idea I had that I thought I should share it here. Not now, I first wonder the result of this poll first.

#2 armjan

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 12:58 AM

as long as we have the ability to point the finger for delegation of responsibility, we'll b fine. smile.gif

oh by the way, i've heard that the diff between a 6 month old human baby and a chimp after they look in the mirror is that the chimp sees another chimp as opposed to the human child who sees a reflection of themselves. This is one of the first major things that differentiate a human and a chimp, other than looks ofcourse.

Edited by armjan, 17 April 2006 - 01:03 AM.


#3 DominO

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 11:05 AM

QUOTE(armjan @ Apr 17 2006, 02:58 AM) View Post
as long as we have the ability to point the finger for delegation of responsibility, we'll b fine. smile.gif

oh by the way, i've heard that the diff between a 6 month old human baby and a chimp after they look in the mirror is that the chimp sees another chimp as opposed to the human child who sees a reflection of themselves. This is one of the first major things that differentiate a human and a chimp, other than looks ofcourse.


True, but later in life, the chimp will recognize itself in the mirror.

#4 shaunt

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 12:05 AM

Arthur Schopenhauer (19th century German philosopher) states something similar when he says that human beings act in accordance to motives.

Motive/Action is the form Cause/Effect take in beings with higher consciousness.

Consciousness becomes the medium through which these motives influence our behavior.

So essentially, everything in the world operates according to causes and effects, thereby denying the free will a role in the world.

This isn't to say that free will doesn't exist, because it does.

According to Schopenhauer, free will is found not in the physical world, but in the metaphysical world.

#5 Anahit

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 03:25 AM

I think that consciousness and subconsciousness both are equally "strong", but consciousness has been developed and studied (as well as just "permited") more than subconsciousness. And,as it's believed that "Man's social being determines his consciousness", plus people tend to concentrate more on the "social being", consciousness keeps on developing and becoming more and more important, getting to play a vital role.

#6 Zartonk

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 02:05 PM

I agree with you Anahit. The significant role of subconsiousness appears subserviant to conscious activity simply because it is somewhat removed from practical experimentation.

In fact, the influence of the subconscious might even be greater.

Edited by Zartonk, 18 April 2006 - 02:08 PM.


#7 Anahit

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 12:24 AM

QUOTE(Zartonk @ Apr 18 2006, 02:05 PM) View Post
In fact, the influence of the subconscious might even be greater.


YES! I also think so, and search for ways to develope and understand my subconsciousness. Any information on this interests me very much!

#8 Zartonk

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 02:44 PM

Glad to hear of your interest.

I think awareness and a constant self-analysis of the causes and effects of mental activity is the best way to gain understanding of one's mind as one whole; the unapparent included.

Edited by Zartonk, 19 April 2006 - 02:46 PM.





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