The Name "tamar"
#1
Posted 22 April 2005 - 07:34 PM
#2
Posted 22 April 2005 - 08:22 PM
Tamar(a) is quite popular in Russia.
#5
Posted 22 April 2005 - 09:27 PM
Tamar, like many "Armenian" Christian names, is a Hebrew name and word. Literally it means “palm tree”, in Hebrew. It is first mentioned in the Bible (Genesis, 38:6), as Judah’s daughter-in-law, and numerous times thereafter.
Edited by kars, 22 April 2005 - 09:35 PM.
#6
Posted 22 April 2005 - 09:56 PM
#7
Posted 22 April 2005 - 10:25 PM
Nice! Thanks for the response.
Gamavor, it seems everyone ends up with a Natasha in Russia, .
#8
Posted 02 May 2005 - 11:49 AM
#9
Posted 02 May 2005 - 11:57 AM
#10
Posted 02 May 2005 - 12:24 PM
Edited by Zartonk, 02 May 2005 - 12:27 PM.
#11
Posted 02 May 2005 - 12:54 PM
The founders of the dynasty were Armenian, who branched out to Georgia. Subsequent ones were Georgian Bagrations. So if Tamar and the later Bagratunis of Georgia are Armenian we have to conclude that Arshakunis were Parthian since the founders of the dynasty were Parthian.
#12
Posted 02 May 2005 - 01:10 PM
I agree with this. I would add that the current conduct of the Georgian governement towards the Armenian heritage of Georgia is to some extent a result of tactless (not to mention politically incorrect) attitude from our side towards Georgian history.
#13
Posted 02 May 2005 - 02:50 PM
I recall way back there was an intance debate weather xorenatsis version was a correct one, however none other then Xorenatsi was able to answer this question, that is the origin of Bagratuni dynasty.
#14
Posted 02 May 2005 - 06:27 PM
#15
Posted 02 May 2005 - 06:33 PM
I mean as involved as Armenians were in Georgia, they posess a very unique and seperable culture.
#16
Posted 03 May 2005 - 10:56 AM
Funny you say that. At times I am tempted to address you as such. One of my neices is named MARAL and another Tamar, she was born when every other girl was nmed so.
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The name Tamar comes to us from the bible, see below.
The conventional wisdom seems to that it means “palm” tree.
True, even if we may be led to believe that it is a Hebrew word in fact it is a word common to several ME languages. At the moment the Arabs use it to mean date, the fruit which we know as “armav” in Armenian. My suspicion is that it it is originally either Assyrian or Aramaic. Why would a girl be named Tamar, I.e. a palm tree?
A palm date may be the sweetest and saccarose fruit of the region. So in fact the name Tamar by inference means “sweet”, would it be the counterpart of the Armenian name Anush?
As long as we are talking about “armav”, more correctly “armau” as it is spelled with hyun ending, let us see where it comes from, and if we read carefully we may suspect that armav may somehow be related to tamar.
According to some sources “armav” comes to us from the Pahlavi.(Once again, let us consider the possibility of the Pahlavi having taken from the Armenian, even if the visa versa may be more probable as Armenia is not known to be a region amenable to the palm tree). The original Pahlavi is “xurma” (Turks and Persians still use the word). When we adopted the word we dropped the initial X(kh) and added the V at the end.
Whereas in the Roman tradition heroes were adorned with leaves of laurel, daphne, “dapne psak”, in the ME this was done with leaves of the palm tree (remember Palm Sunday) Hence in the Armenian at times we use “armaveni” instead of “dapne psak as an adornment of hero’s head, as in the phraae from a hymn- “haghtoghin armaveni“.
As to Queen Tamar of Vrastan, there is an Armenian connection through the Zakarians
http://www.searchgod...gi?number=T4206
"
The wife successively of the two sons of Judah, Er and Onan. (Genesis 38:8-30) (B.C. about 1718.) Her importance in the sacred narrative depends on the great anxiety to keep up the lineage of Judah. It seemed as if the family were on the point of extinction. Er and Onan had successively perished suddenly. Judah’s wife, Bathshuah, died; and there only remained a child, Shelah, whom Judah was unwilling to trust to the dangerous union as it appeared, with Tamar, lest he should meet with the same fate as his brothers. Accordingly she resorted to the desperate expedient of entrapping the father himself into the union which he feared for his son. The fruits of this intercourse were twins, Pharez and Zarah, and through Pharez the sacred line was continued. Daughter of David and Maachah the Geshurite princess, and thus sister of Absalom. (2 Samuel 13:1-32; 1 Chronicles 3:9) (B.C. 1033.) She and her brother were alike remarkable for their extraordinary beauty. This fatal beauty inspired a frantic passion in her half-brother Amnon, the oldest son of David by Ahinoam. In her touching remonstrance two points are remarkable: first, the expression of the infamy of such a crime "in Israel" implying the loftier standard of morals that prevailed, as compared with other countries at that time; and second, the belief that even this standard might be overborne lawfully by royal authority --"Speak to the king, for he will not withhold me from thee." The intense hatred of Amnon succeeding to his brutal passion, and the indignation of Tamar at his barbarous insult, even surpassing her indignation at his shameful outrage, are pathetically and graphically told. Daughter of Absalom, (2 Samuel 14:7) became, by her marriage with Uriah of Gibeah, the mother of Maachah, the future queen of Judah or wife of Abijah. (1 Kings 15:2) (B.C. 1023.) A spot on the southeastern frontier of Judah, named in (Ezekiel 47:19; 48:28) only, evidently called from a palm tree. If not Hazazon-tamar, the old name of Engedi, it may he a place called Thamar in the Onamasticon [HAZAZON-TAMAR), a day’s journey south of Hebro
Edited by Arpa, 04 May 2005 - 05:22 AM.
#17
Posted 03 May 2005 - 09:49 PM
#19
Posted 04 May 2005 - 05:56 AM
Why is it that we name our daughters “tamar and not “tamarind” or more correctly-tamar hindi?
http://www.hort.purd...n/tamarind.html
Distribution
Native to tropical Africa, the tree grows wild throughout the Sudan and was so long ago introduced into and adopted in India that it has often been reported as indigenous there also, and it was apparently from this Asiatic country that it reached the Persians and the Arabs who called it "tamar hindi" (Indian date, from the date-like appearance of the dried pulp), giving rise to both its common and generic names. Unfortunately, the specific name, "indica", also perpetuates the illusion of Indian origin. The fruit was well known to the ancient Egyptians and to the Greeks in the 4th Century B.C.
I had known tamarind and about it first hand as in the ME street vendors sell a drink made with it and it is usually the more expensive and more preferred beverage. I had always taken for granted that it indeed was from India, but judging from the above it seems it was introduced there from Africa.
Is the reason we don’t call our daughters tamarind or tamar hindi because it is a sweet and sour fruit as it is very tangy?
#20
Posted 04 May 2005 - 09:08 AM
Look above. Not only you are capitalized you are highlighted as well.
Never mind Queen Tamar, our queen is Maral!
Ah I see...so you prefer your neice Maral over your neice Tamar eh?
ok I'll let it go
You are just a wealth of information Arpa....lucky for us....
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