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Nahapet Quchak


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#1 Armen

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 10:25 AM

"Tstsverid urelin, asi nuor en,
Dzers qtsi, tesa tsur en."

Nahapet Quchak
14 century


I remember this piece form Nahapet Quchak's course we had in 7th or 8th grade. A guy from our class narrated this piece among others during the test and our teacher got pale and invited him out of class smile.gif

Does anyone know other these kind of stuff by Quchak?

#2 Anileve

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 02:24 PM

Armen jan, never hear of that poet nor do I remember those steamy lines. I do have erotic poetry of my own, however, it's in russian.

Skachet ona po kamennoy dorojke
Obnajaya svoy nojki
Ulibayushis v okoshke
Ti yey stroyish kozlyachiye roshki

What do you think? biggrin.gif

Edited by anileve, 31 August 2004 - 02:25 PM.


#3 bellthecat

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 02:34 PM

QUOTE (anileve @ Aug 31 2004, 08:24 PM)
Armen jan, never hear of that poet nor do I remember those steamy lines.


Can someone steamy them into English. I'm curious. smile.gif

#4 Armen

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 02:41 PM

I think it's fun. Let's continue...

Ottogo on stroyit rozhki,
Chto po kammennoi dorozhke,
Obnazhaya svoyi nozhki,
Zver' idyot khitreye koshki...smile.gif

QUOTE (anileve @ Aug 31 2004, 02:24 PM)
Armen jan, never hear of that poet nor do I remember those steamy lines. I do have erotic poetry of my own, however, it's in russian.

Skachet ona po kamennoy dorojke
Obnajaya svoy nojki
Ulibayushis v okoshke
Ti yey stroyish kozlyachiye roshki

What do you think? biggrin.gif

Edited by ArmenSarg, 31 August 2004 - 02:47 PM.


#5 Harut

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 02:43 PM

although not from 14th but 16th century, Quchak was someone very revolutionary for his time, by switching from writing about heavenly promises to earthly pleasures.
definately set the stage for the next phenomenon, Sayat-Nova.

#6 Armen

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 02:45 PM

QUOTE (bellthecat @ Aug 31 2004, 02:34 PM)
Can someone steamy them into English. I'm curious.  smile.gif


Literally...

"Your tits were swollen. I thought they were pomegranates.
I tried to touch them. But they were "tsur" "

I can't really understand what he means by "tsur". It can mean "deformed" or something, don't know maybe someone else will help...

#7 Armen

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 02:48 PM

QUOTE (Harut @ Aug 31 2004, 02:43 PM)
although not from 14th but 16th century, Quchak was someone very revolutionary for his time, by switching from writing about heavenly promises to earthly pleasures.
definately set the stage for the next phenomenon, Sayat-Nova.


Oh, shame on me. Thanks Harut. 16th century.

#8 Harut

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 02:53 PM

QUOTE (Harut @ Aug 31 2004, 01:43 PM)
although not from 14th but 16th century, Quchak was someone very revolutionary for his time, by switching from writing about heavenly promises to earthly pleasures.
definately set the stage for the next phenomenon, Sayat-Nova.


on the other hand, as many suggest, not a revolutionary, but one of the last reminisces of the era.

#9 Anileve

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 02:54 PM

QUOTE (ArmenSarg @ Aug 31 2004, 04:41 PM)
I think it's fun. Let's continue...

Ottogo on stroyit rozhki,
Chto po kammennoi dorozhke,
Obnazhaya svoyi nozhki,
Zver' idyot khitreye koshki...smile.gif


lol.gif Fine then... cool.gif

Zver pover, ne takush strashen
No ona ne zamechayet
Kak ego gnev na sebya prevlekayet
Mojet prosto yego soblaz
Privrasheyet eye v dikiy obraz
Kto je angel a kto je chert
On neznayet kak soblazen eye med
=======

Tsur means crooked no?

#10 nairi

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 03:38 PM

Nice topic Armen!

Here's a few (translated in The Heritage of Armenian Literature Vol. II):

WHOEVER HAS A WHITE BOSOM

Whoever has a white bosom
Let her put on a blue shirt.
Let her leave the button open.
Whoever notices, let her heart bleed.

Let him go to beg God to dry up the indigo.
Let its seed be exhausted.
Let the girl no longer wear blue.
And let the heart of the boy be cured.

LOVE ME IF YOU WANT

Early in the morning
the sun is in my eyes,
I met one more radiant
than moon or sunrise.

"I love you," I shouted.
she did not look amused.
Muttered, "Love me if you will
but don't broadcast the news."

YOUR BOSOM

Your bosom is a white church,
your breasts, lamps and candles.
Let me be the sexton in charge
of lighting the chapel.

Presumtuous boy, don't you dare
speak about chapels.
You're just the type who'd go off
Without lighting a single candle.

THE KISS YOU GAVE

The kiss you gave willingly
from your sweet mouth
is unmatched by any fruit
of damp north, dry south.

Sweet as the apple
for which Adam gave up Eden.
And I would give anything
to taste it once again.

WHEN LOVE ENTERED

When love entered my world, it first flew in my heart,
then wandered about place to place;
perched in my brain, inside my head
asking tears from my eyes, and got blood instead.


More to come later smile.gif

Edited by nairi, 31 August 2004 - 03:39 PM.


#11 nairi

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 04:32 PM

RISING MOON TAKE GREETINGS TO MY LOVE

My love, in her garden, sits under the trees,
drinking alone happily, singing poems like these.
Rising moon, find her. Go and declare
true love and good wine are better shared.

BURNING

Far from you, I'm parched and dry
for something unidentified,
with an orphan's kind of thirst
which only you can satisfy.

I WISH I WERE

Oh to be in your silken blouse,
the buttons at your throat and wrist,
or wine or water in your glass
and still kiss after kiss.

AND I AM ON MY WAY

And now the sky is streaked.
And now the earth awakes.
And now my love stirs in my arms
and struggles to escape.

I press her hands and kiss her mouth.
She murmurs, pulling free,
"We both intended I should go.
And now I have to leave."

I CAME LAST NIGHT TO YOU

My beloved, do you know
I came last night to you,
found you fast asleep and stole
a thousand kisses too?

Were you really sleeping?
Or merely being kind,
pitying a young man
standing, heart in hand?



I think this next bit says it all smile.gif


I have not been to confession once
in my living days,
Whenever I see a priest in the street
I turn the other way.
Whenever I see a pretty girl
I embrace her with devotion:
Her snow-white breast's my confessional,
in her arms is my absolution.


And then:

Oh let me drink your red cheeks' wine
till I have had my fill.
Your breasts are the Garden of Paradise,
let me pick your apples at will.
Oh let me rest on your snow-white breast
and sleep there while I draw breath,
And after an endless repose let me yield
my soul to Angel of Death.


Reminds me of Gamavor for some reason...

For more, get the book I mentioned or go to http://www.digilib.am/texts/, although I can't find Nahapet for some reason. It should be there though.

Edited by nairi, 31 August 2004 - 04:54 PM.


#12 Arpa

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 04:42 PM

Atta girl Nairi! More, more!!
Atta boy Armen!
Atta boy Nahapet!!
About time!
Nahapet Quchak for president!!!
All this sexless, insensual and bland Armenian poetry since.
Nahapet lived at an era before we forgot all about our humanness. After him we resorted to lierature to save our skin rather than talk about it.
Daniel Varuzhan tried to revive it, see his Arevelyan Bagnhik, but he also fell to the struggle to save our skin.

As to "tsur", even if it seems to be a poetic license to rhyme with "nour", it is also used in the sense of "tsrel/korel/lost". Did she have falsies, or artificials? Amot! Shame on me!
On further thought, consider "Sasna Tsrer", the "Crazies of Sasun".
Crazy?
Why not?
Crazy about your/her bosom?
Red blooded Armenian boy?

I wish our writers and poets get off that Gen...de stuff and get back where Nahapet left. Poetry for poetry's sake and remind us that we are made of "muscle and blood" and skin.

If we could only get over this G....... and J.. stuff.

Edited by Arpa, 31 August 2004 - 04:43 PM.


#13 Armen

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE (nairi @ Aug 31 2004, 04:32 PM)
Whenever I see a priest in the street
I turn the other way.
Whenever I see a pretty girl
I embrace her with devotion:
Her snow-white breast's my confessional,
in her arms is my absolution.


Yeah, seems like Quchak have been reading Thoth's posts biggrin.gif

Nairi jan, thank you very much. Didn't think Quchak has been traslated to English. However, I remember there were some realy, realy sexy ones.

Edited by ArmenSarg, 31 August 2004 - 06:06 PM.


#14 Maral

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:09 PM

Oh my....the things I learn on the forum! rolleyes.gif

wine.gif

#15 nairi

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE (ArmenSarg @ Sep 1 2004, 02:01 AM)
Yeah, seems like Quchak have been reading Thoth's posts  biggrin.gif

lol.gif

QUOTE
Nairi jan, thank you very much. Didn't think Quchak has been traslated to English. However, I remember there were some realy, realy sexy ones.

Are you sure that wasn't exaggeration in your teenage fantasy? tongue.gif

I don't know. This is all I've got (in trans.). The rest is pretty much repetitive. A lot about the look of bosoms and wanting to touch them. I didn't find your quote though...

The translations are by Diana Der Hovanessian, Ewald Osers, and Aram Tolegian.

#16 Armen

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:32 PM

Quchak is indeed a extraordianry phenomena in Armenian history and literature. I think he is the representative of the protestant movement that never materialized in Armenia. Protestant movement in Europe was the result of Enlightenment period and went along with Renaissance and brought Europe to a whole new level of social and political life. It is interesting to me that Armenian literary class was leaving through the same periods and stages until dark age muslim barbarism and Church dogma overwhelmed it for some centuries.

#17 Armen

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:40 PM

QUOTE (nairi @ Aug 31 2004, 06:25 PM)
lol.gif
Are you sure that wasn't exaggeration in your teenage fantasy? tongue.gif

I don't know. This is all I've got (in trans.). The rest is pretty much repetitive. A lot about the look of bosoms and wanting to touch them. I didn't find your quote though...

The translations are by Diana Der Hovanessian, Ewald Osers, and Aram Tolegian.


I sure I was adding a couple of further moves and touches in my sinfull mind... wink.gif

Well, if you didn't find my quote I sure they didn't translate or post all of it.

#18 Sasun

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:45 PM

Mard ka terter@ ksire, mard el ka terteri kin@ wink.gif

#19 Armen

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:54 PM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Aug 31 2004, 06:45 PM)
Mard ka terter@ ksire, mard el ka terteri kin@ wink.gif


Hey Sasun you're bad! Actually, terteri kine where always good looking chicks because parents loved to give their daughters with terters who were usually well funded smile.gif

#20 nairi

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Posted 31 August 2004 - 06:56 PM

QUOTE (ArmenSarg @ Sep 1 2004, 02:40 AM)
Well, if you didn't find my quote I sure they didn't translate or post all of it.

That's the pity about this anthology. It's introductory and doesn't have much. In the introduction to Quchak, however, it says that according to some scholars much of what has been attributed to Nahapet Quchak, was in fact written by earlier minstrels in the 13th and 14th centuries (you weren't that far after all with the date). Other than that it's a mere page and half on his life... Apparently he was one of the "most venerated minstrels of his time". He was also known as Master Nahapet or Ashugh (minstrel) Nahapet.

Edited by nairi, 31 August 2004 - 06:58 PM.





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