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1921 Kars Treaty and Turkish-Armenian Relations


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#21 Berj

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Posted 21 March 2001 - 09:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MJ:

But doesn't it mean we have been doing something wrong for very long time?

The problem, I think, is not the region, but us - lack of realism.


MJ,
Isn't realism based on calculations?

#22 MJ

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Posted 21 March 2001 - 09:09 AM

Berj,

Of coarse it is. But in our case, it turns to be based not on clalculations, but on the lack of professionalism and on a fake patriotic pathos.

#23 Berj

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Posted 21 March 2001 - 09:26 AM

MJ,
The most famous patriots of the last war are all dead. The last one is in jail. Believe me, if the Diaspora lives with patriotism, Armenia already doesn't. People want professionalism badly. But all they see is corruption (internal and external), "professional" calculations based again on corruption and not on national security and economic imperatives. All the professionals are either out of the country or silent. Everyone is waiting for something to happen.

#24 MJ

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Posted 21 March 2001 - 09:28 AM

Berj,

We are talking in such general terms that I don't even know if we are arguing or agreeing with each other.

#25 Yervant1

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 11:02 AM

THE KARS TREATY--NEITHER FISH NOR FOWL

NCWA's legal advisory board examines the controversial treaty

The Kars Treaty signatories were the Soviet Union, the Armenian,
Georgian Soviet Socialist republics and Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist
Republic, as well as the Turkish Assembly in Angora (Ankara), prior
to the founding of the Republic of Turkey. The treaty is a crucial
event in modern Armenian history. It's also controversial and often
misunderstood. The legal advisory board of the National Congress of
Western Armenians explains the shortcomings of the treaty. --Editor.

The Treaty of Alexandropol was signed on Dec. 2, 1920 between Turkish
revolutionaries (before the declaration of the Republic of Turkey)
and the Government of the Republic of Armenia. Article 11 of the
treaty declared the Sèvres Treaty "null and void". The territory of
the Republic of Armenia was reduced by more than 50%. The treaty was
supposed to have been ratified within one month by the parliament of
the Republic of Armenia. It was, however, never ratified due to the
occupation of the RoA by the armies of the Russian Soviet Federative
Socialist Republic (RSFSR). It was eventually replaced by the Kars
Treaty as stipulated in Article I of the Kars Treaty.

The Treaty of Kars was signed on Oct. 23, 1921 and ratified in Yerevan
on Sept. 11, 1922. While all signatories had the necessary powers to
negotiate and sign the treaty, doubts have always been expressed about
its validity and applicability for two main reasons: at the time only
the RSFSR was a sovereign state in accordance with international law.

The three other entities, namely the Armenian Soviet Socialist
Republic, the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic, Azerbaijan Soviet
Socialist Republic were not independent sovereign states and recognized
as such by international law or the international community (the League
of Nations). Furthermore, the Turkish delegation represented the Grand
National Assembly of Turkey (GNAT) founded in Ankara on April 23,
1920 and not the government of Turkey. The GNAT declared the Turkish
Republic in 1923, two years after the signing the Kars Treaty.

A treaty is valid if all of its provisions are put into effect and
implemented. Articles XIII, XIV, XV XVII XVIII and XIX , concerning
the relations between the Soviet Republic of Armenia and Turkey,
have never been implemented. Signatories cannot pick and choose which
provisions of a signed treaty will be implemented and which will not.

Hence the reference only to the borders provided for in the treaty
and not applying the remaining provisions is not in accordance with
international law.

In accordance with Article V the region of Nakhichevan constitutes
an autonomous territory under the protection of Azerbaijan and not
an integral part of Azerbaijan. All inhabitants of territory that
was part of Russia before 1918, and over which the sovereignty of
Turkey is affirmed, shall have the opportunity, if they desire to
relinquish their Turkish nationality, to leave Turkey freely, taking
with them their possessions and goods, or the proceeds of their sale
(Article XIII). In accordance with the provisions of Article XVII the
contracting parties agree to take all necessary measures necessary to
maintain and develop railway, telegraphic, and other communications,
as well as to assure free transit of persons and commodities without
any hindrance.

Consular conventions were supposed to be concluded within three
months in accordance with Article XIX. None of the foregoing was
implemented. After the Second World War the USSR attempted to annul
the Kars Treaty.

On 7 June, 1945 the Foreign Minister of the USSR, Vyacheslav Molotov
requested, on behalf of the Armenian and Georgian SSRs, from the
Turkish ambassador in Moscow that the provinces of Kars, Ardahan and
Artvin be returned to the USSR. Ultimately Churchill convinced the
United States not to accept the request of the USSR. There was no
further follow up.

To ensure the validity of the Kars Treaty it is necessary either to
implement all the provisions of the treaty or negotiate a new one. A
non-implemented treaty remains null and void.

http://www.keghart.c...CWA-Kars-Treaty
 



#26 Yervant1

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 10:07 AM

RUSSIAN LAWMAKERS SUGGEST ANNULLING 1921 TREATY OF FRIENDSHIP WITH TURKEY

13:26, 08 Feb 2016
Siranush Ghazanchyan

Members of Russia's State Duma (lower house of parliament) Valery
Rashkin and Sergei Obukhov (Communist Party faction) have sent a
letter to the country's leadership and the Foreign Ministry proposing
to denounce the Moscow Treaty of Friendship and Brotherhood signed On
March 16, 1921, by the government of Soviet Russia (RSFSR) and the
Grand National Assembly of Turkey, writes Russia's Izvestia daily
which has obtained the text of the letter, TASS reports.

"We should consider a possibility of legal review of all
Russian-Turkish agreements that are unfavorable for our country and
its allies. Ankara must understand what the escalation of the conflict
could be fraught with for it. Only this can bring it to earth and
prevent it from carrying out new provocations," Obukhov told Izvestia.

The initiative has been supported by the Just Russia faction.

According to State Duma member Oleg Pakholkov, the Moscow treaty was
signed to the detriment of Russia's interests.

Obukhov noted that "two of the three South Caucasian republics -
Georgia and Armenia - did not recognize the terms of the treaty
considering it unfair." "One should realize that in 1921 the
Bolshevik (Soviet) government was literally hanging by a single
thread: the foreign intervention and civil war continued. Under
those circumstances Soviet Russia could not speak from a position of
strength and impose more favorable terms of the treaty on Turkey,"
the parliamentarian said.

The newspaper notes that under the treaty "the former Kars region
and the southern part of the former Batumi region that were part of
the Russian Empire since 1878 as well as former Surmalin district
of Erivan Governorate that was part of the Russian Empire since 1828
with Mount Ararat were ceded to Turkey."

https://urldefense.p...EFbBnBzwc-kE&e=

https://urldefense.p...Ns40_-fxQ_YY&e=
 



#27 Yervant1

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 10:13 AM

Is it for real, or political posturing?

RUSSIA MPS PROPOSE ANNULMENT OF 1921 TREATY OF MOSCOW WITH TURKEY

12:48, 08.02.2016
Region:Russia, Turkey
Theme: Politics

Russian State Duma members Valery Rashkin and Sergei Obukhov have
petitioned to President Vladimir Putin and Foreign Minister Sergei
Lavrov, and proposed to sever the brotherhood and friendship treaty
(Treaty of Moscow) which the then Russian Soviet Federative Socialist
Republic (Bolshevist Russia) and Turkey had signed in 1921, according
to Izvestia daily of Russia.

"Ankara needs to understand what the escalation of the conflict can
turn into," Obukhov said.

And as per Duma member Oleg Pakholkov, Turkey has posited very hard
conditions, including a point on Nagorno-Karabakh.

"But the Turks need to be disciplined," Pakholkov added. "If you
have adopted a traitorous position today, severing the treaty is an
equivalent step; Armenia will assist us in this matter."

He noted that even if the severance of this accord will not have a
major legal force, it will express the territorial claims with which
the Russian side does not agree.

"Two of the three Transcaucasian republics--Armenia and Georgia
[except for Azerbaijan]--don't recognize the terms of the treaty,"
Sergei Obukhov said. "We need to understand that in 1921, the Bolshevik
power was hanging by a thread."

Pursuant to this treaty, most of Kars Province, southern part of former
Batumi Province, and Surmalu District--along with Mount Ararat--of
Yerevan Province were given to Turkey.

https://urldefense.p...7ZgsIRGuKVJs&e=

 

 



#28 Yervant1

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 10:02 AM

Book on the fall of Kars is published

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Photo: Mediamax

Yerevan /Mediamax/. By the initiative of Modus Vivendi Center, the presentation of the book “Kars marz (province) within the First Republic of Armenia (April 1919 - October 1920): Materials and documents” took place today.

Head of Modus Vivendi Center Ara Papian said that publication of such work aims at providing the readers with rare documents, which haven’t been released to the public yet or are difficult to access.

“In the book you can find extracts from the memoirs of Kars civilian governor Stepan Ghorghanyan, various materials about the Armenian Army and republic,” he said.

According to Ara Papian, the book is relevant, as “there are many similarities between reality now and in 1920”.

The author of the book Vladimir Harutyunyan said that the documents he collected give food for thought on the importance of maintaining Armenian statehood.

According to the author, the book contains many important documents depicting the situation in Kars marz and the Armenian army brigade stationed there, which lead to surrender of Kars to Kemal’s forces in 1920.

http://www.mediamax..../society/20408/






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