381 replies to this topic

[THOTH]

Yes - how can anyone argue that it isn't? Seperate and unequal standards. Who makes the rules? Why?

And Tigrannes - I'm not sure to hope that when you get married you get a frigid one or such - would serve you right and maybe you would learn something - or wish you all the best (I mean its tough to wish the worst on the naive...). While it is entirely your schoice as to what you do and what you expect - and thats fine. I find your portrayal of (non-virginal-unmarried) women to be distasteful and totally lacking in respect/decency. Is it not likewise their choice? And - even if not for you - you should respect that. Additionally, how would you feel if others (women) etc - derided you becaus eyou had chosen to have sexual relations (or not). To me any judgement of another person of this nature is immature and shortsighted. How can one presume that they necessairly know the best way(s) for someone else to live their lives?

[THOTH]

Oh and Tigrannes - you should know that in history there are a mirad of examples of men marrrying women whom they thought were virgins and it turned out not to be. So what will you do if this situation were to happen to you? Would you divorce her (kill her? don't know....would the dishoner be so great....) on the spot (even if you loved her - and I presume that you would love her if your marrying her - though perhaps not - maybe her family has money or something - who knows...)

[TigrannesIII]

To even insinuate that I would marry for money or power is disgusting and degrading. I would slap you across the face if you ever said such a thing to my face. A girl who sleeps around most likely does it because she has no self-respect.

I find your views on non-virgin unmarried girls to be equally disturbing and offensive. It's obvious you're not Armenian. I'm getting sick of a non-Armenian advocating to Armenians to be more Armenian by not being Armenian. Our 'outmoded' ideas have serviced us for a very long time. Change is not good. It is insulting to our ancestors to deviate.

Perhaps I would forgive her if she were to lie (I would eventually forgive her as my religion commands me to), and I would certainly not kill her. However, divorce would be likely. If she lied to me about something fundamental such as that that is not the best way to build a marriage, now is it?

[nairi]

Tigrannes jan, our "outmoded" ideas were also new once.

[nairi]

Does this mean you'd potentially marry me?

[TigrannesIII]

are you proposing?

[TigrannesIII]

To be honest, no, because I couldn't entrust you to raise a daughter should I have one. Christianity was also once considered a cult, that doesn't change the fact that it's remain unchanged for us for 1701 years. You see where I'm going? Just because things may have once been new and now they're old doesn't mean that things should change now. If we're going to start acting like Westerners we might as well stop being Armenian. I've already had to suffer because of a not so serious taboo in Armenian culture, but because of my respect and love for the culture I dare not push the envelope.

[TigrannesIII]

another important reason why Armenian women should remain pure before marriage (this is a point I think I have alluded to) is because women are the custodians of the culture. If they stray, what effect will that have on the coming generation? It is the job of the woman to raise the kids right- as much as someone like me may be proud to be Armenian and do everything to raise his child to have the same ideals, in the end I am greatly flawed- and in the end, most men are @$$ho1e$ and that's why we need strong women.

[Azat]

Tigran, see now you are cool that you have a goatee. Women want to marry you.

Nairi jan, I have a beard, does that count?

Vahan jan, I understand that it was(or actually I should say is important) to Armenians and maybe the Chinese and half the population of the world, my question is why? Why is it so important.

Lets get one thing straight, we are not talking about sluts or anything like that here. We are talking about 2 women who are upstanding citizens, well educated and all that. Why would one be a better wife than the other because she has not experienced sexual pleasures.

If I were a woman(thank God I am not) I would definitely insist that I had sex with potential husband prior to marriage. What if the guy had a 2 inch personality. Are you as a woman willing to live with a 2 inch wee-wee for the rest of your life?

[nairi]

Perhaps I acquired my attitude growing up in country where sex is pretty much at the forefront of everything; where prostitutes are respected, have legal jobs and pay tax; where homosexuals are free to get married and adopt children; and where single (teenage) mothers are not ex-communicated or stoned to death. This is a country where everyone is free to choose for themselves, from sexual promiscuity, using drugs and having abortions, to virginity, staying clean and becoming a monk. Nobody stops no one. New people are given new laws; old laws are easily and smoothly replaced.

I'm not saying Armenia should look like this, but I sure would be less embarrassed to introduce my odar friends to Armenians if there was a bit more tolerance and respect for difference among us.

Tigrannes, though I understand where you're coming from, my main worry is: what will you do to your daughter if you find out she's been having pre-marital sex?

[nairi]

Are you a virgin?

[TigrannesIII]

you see, Azat jan, that's what I'm trying to get at. If a woman won't marry a man she loves because he has a shorter list, then the woman is worthless. If a man won't marry a woman or cheats on his wife because she's not on fire in the sack, then he, too, is worthless. People shouldn't marry just because of sex- it shouldn't even be a factor. That's why I'm so revolted by this society- it's driven waaaay too much by sex. The same goes for the rest of Western Europe and anywhere else where pre-marrital sex is accepted- girls eventually turn to $lut$, and the fabric of the society goes down. Go look at Armenia where girls are still righteous- how much drug abuse is there? Do you all see where I'm going? Look at Iran where women are righteous- how much drug abuse is there? Now look at the USA where women aren't- how much drug abuse is there? How much child molestation is there? How much patricide, homicide? Alot. You see, when the women's righteousness goes, there goes the society.

[TigrannesIII]

Nairi, I guess I can't really blame you, since you've grown up in probably the worst society in the history of the modern world. It's just that if you're going to accept the host culture, why still call yourself Armenian?

God, please don't even ask me what I'd do. As it is I don't permit my sisters to date. I've got people back home keeping an eye out for me, and the word is out that anyone who puts a finger on one of my sisters gets killed. I still remember when we were little kids (she was 6 years old, I was 8) and I beat some little boy for talking to her ))))

As for your odar friends, maybe they should learn to be tolerant of our ways? My philosophy is let all cultures do their own things, my only worry is making sure that Armenians stick to our ways.

[nairi]

You're lucky there's a whole computer in between us, or else I would have sent MY brother to break YOUR face for even daring to read my posts.

[ October 02, 2002, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: nairi ]

[TigrannesIII]

you're not the oldest brother of your family, you couldn't possibly relate

[TigrannesIII]

and it's 2 computers (not just 1) and some phone lines

[Azat]

Dude, are you not a Badger? I thought 2 things that badgers majored on were sex and alcohol. What happened to you?

Sex is such an important part of marriage that to say one should not pay attention to it(or however you put it) is absurd.

By the way I am the oldest brother and I too can't relate.

By the way 2: You used the word "list" as well. LMAO

Domino, Nairi and I use PMs only to exchange pictures.

[nairi]

Tigrannes, how do you expect a woman to marry you if she's not even allowed to talk to you before you're married?