82 replies to this topic

[Harut]

does boycotting turkish schools count?
http://www.zaman.com...060425&hn=32402

[Zartonk]

Well kudos to your children Yervant. It was decisive of them to point out their opinion so and inform an American of the Genocide, we honestly should voice this stance.

BTW, this zaman article shot me DEAD.

One nation being sperated, eh..?

"Bestowed our daughters"!

Shame I say, ptoo! Boycott her and her likes!

Edited by Zartonk, 25 April 2006 - 10:30 PM.

[gamavor]

Technically and culturally she is turkish. Most Turkish Armenians do not speak Armenian and most Armenians are hostile towards Armenians from Turkey. Her grandchild will feel as a foreigner among Armenians or others, so she decided to enroll him in a Turkish "college". I perfectly understand her motivation but I slightly disagree about "world values and good manners" from a turkish school.

[Zartonk]

She can be a Turcophile or a completed Turk all she pleases, but I can not bear when tolerance and coexistence are misued by comparing supposed impressions of two nations, both outright offending a culture and defending a propagandist position.

[armjan]

what i've also noticed is that some armenians also pay turkish web hosting companies, without ever really inquiring/looking into to it.

[vava]

what i've also noticed is that some armenians also pay turkish web hosting companies, without ever really inquiring/looking into to it.

I had a site hosted by a Canadian company a few months ago. I had a billing issue, and it could not get resolved until I finally ended up speaking with the general manager/owner - Mehmet something-oglu. Needless to say, I switched the next day.

It's hard to tell sometimes.

Edited by vava, 25 April 2006 - 11:00 PM.

[armjan]

I had a site hosted by a Canadian company a few months ago. I had a billing issue, and it could not get resolved until I finally ended up speaking with the general manager/owner - Mehmet something-oglu. Needless to say, I switched the next day.

It's hard to tell sometimes.

yes, there's a surprisingly large # of turkish hosting companies with reasonably cheap prices.

[hytga]

has anyone noticed, the towels at MGM are made in turkey?

[Aubépine]

does boycotting turkish schools count?
http://www.zaman.com...060425&hn=32402

These Turkish schools number around 300, in far-flung places like Laos, Gambia, Philippines, Belize etc. Most of them are located in the Balkans, Russia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Central Asia. They are funded by local and Turkish businessmen and cater to the local youth as there are hardly any Turks in these places. Their main aim is to create a network of pro-Turkish elites who will occupy important positions in their countries and who will have a special affinity for Turkey. It's all very strategically done and emphasis is put to countries where the education infrastructure is non-existent or inadequate. Turkish is compulsory in all of them and the students master it quite proficiently. Since the schools are self-reliant and education is free it creates a very favourable impression among the population. Of course the leadership in these countries are very grateful since no other country is doing anything remotely similar to this. These activities are not restricted to schools only, but small-business schemes and model farms as well. Their numbers are increasing exponentially and they operate very discreetly.

[Stormig]

All other matters aside, I can't even begin to imagine how bewildered (or even bankrupt) American business-owners would be if in the cumulative every ethnic group instructed their stores not to sell products from the country that was their oppressor or other. Arabs and Israelis each other, the Tibetans - China, the Chinese and others - Japan, the Copts - Egypt, several combinations among Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians, Chechens and other nationalities from the Russian Federation, former Soviet republics, or former Soviet satellites - Russia, Algerians the French, Somalis - Italy, Congolese - Belgium, Hereros - Germany, etc. Finally Native Americans and Americans against the current state of American affairs would call for boycott of everything American and everyone could go back to their homes, grow their own food, weave their own clothes, and smoke-signal.

[Aubépine]

What is being done to Armenian businesses in Turkey is also reprehensible. I know personally that there is a hidden boycott going on in the Kapalı Çarşı (Covered Bazaar) against Armenians jewelers and silversmiths. The same goes for the small-business owners in Pangaltı and Osmanbey. They are blacklisted and they don't even know it I think. The main street in Pangaltı is almost lifeless. It's all hush-hush, but some people are frantically searching for Armenian names under every stone. Some wholesalers are refusing to deal with Armenian businesses.

[Stormig]

Oh and also, regarding this trip with companies run by Turks or companies that employ Turks (LMAO), is there an extension of this to countries other than the US and is this a whole-sale, blanket boycott, and would there also a project to document and white-list Turks that are critical of their state policy and/or that acknowledge the Armenian genocide? Hand out badges of acknowledgement certification to individuals, companies, universities, etc., to shield them (could "them" include Orhan Pamuk, maybe?) from such wrath, perhaps? What would it read? "Armenian genocide recognised here"?
Oh, and a cue from me - while you're at it, boycott Atlantic Records, too.

[Boghos]

Boycotting Turkish goods reminds me of similar campaigns in the 70s and 80s, such as South Africa. Not much ever came from them and in the case of South Africa the consequences were of the worst kind: it pushed the country into the underworld of international trade. So it ended up supporting criminals and hurting consumers, black and white alike, that paid higher prices for worse goods.

But don´t misunderstand me. I think that often we need this kind of psychological encouragement even if to strengthen the sense of identity, albeit in a negative way (ie I am what I don´t do, not what I do) .
Recently I was looking at a number of soccer jerseys, my nephew collects them , and I found a very nice one, I can´t recall the country, but it was made in Turkey. I decided not to buy it. It was an individual reaction, not a thoughtful collective act with a clear intent.
I think that there is a big difference between individual choice and collective acts in terms of the motivation and the consequences:

- first and foremost let me state that there is no chance in the world that such boycott would have any meaningful impact in Turkey, or any impact at all. Perhaps it would make us look foolish, Quixotesque.
- second: I am all for the opening of the borders with Turkey (or any country for that matter), Turkish goods are aplenty in Armenia, so how do we deal with that?
- third, boycotts are fertile ground for manipulation of people, that is why I on an individual level it is fine to boycott (or not) but to believe that one is part of a conspiracy to hurt Turkey is a delusion. It may make one feel good but nothing else.

My question is and will always be: why do we spend so much time with these kinds of issues? Let´s focus on building.

[Stormig]

Boycotting Turkish goods reminds me of similar campaigns in the 70s and 80s, such as South Africa. Not much ever came from them and in the case of South Africa the consequences were of the worst kind: it pushed the country into the underworld of international trade. So it ended up supporting criminals and hurting consumers, black and white alike, that paid higher prices for worse goods.
(...)
- second: I am all for the opening of the borders with Turkey (or any country for that matter), Turkish goods are aplenty in Armenia, so how do we deal with that?
(...)

And isn't that the case with the closed border today, although not necessarily of such grave consequences? I've said before that the average Hovhannes pays more for the same (or worse) merchandise.

[MosJan]

Boycotting Turkish goods reminds me of similar campaigns in the 70s and 80s, such as South Africa. Not much ever came from them and in the case of South Africa the consequences were of the worst kind: it pushed the country into the underworld of international trade. So it ended up supporting criminals and hurting consumers, black and white alike, that paid higher prices for worse goods.

But don´t misunderstand me. I think that often we need this kind of psychological encouragement even if to strengthen the sense of identity, albeit in a negative way (ie I am what I don´t do, not what I do) .
Recently I was looking at a number of soccer jerseys, my nephew collects them , and I found a very nice one, I can´t recall the country, but it was made in Turkey. I decided not to buy it. It was an individual reaction, not a thoughtful collective act with a clear intent.
I think that there is a big difference between individual choice and collective acts in terms of the motivation and the consequences:

- first and foremost let me state that there is no chance in the world that such boycott would have any meaningful impact in Turkey, or any impact at all. Perhaps it would make us look foolish, Quixotesque.
- second: I am all for the opening of the borders with Turkey (or any country for that matter), Turkish goods are aplenty in Armenia, so how do we deal with that?
- third, boycotts are fertile ground for manipulation of people, that is why I on an individual level it is fine to boycott (or not) but to believe that one is part of a conspiracy to hurt Turkey is a delusion. It may make one feel good but nothing else.

My question is and will always be: why do we spend so much time with these kinds of issues? Let´s focus on building.

Boghos jan 600.000 Armenian in LA might not be able to hurt the prosperous turkish economy - but the $$$ spend by them on goods imported from turky can surly help business growth in small country like Armenia. So instead of getting your self an GAzoz imported form turky - you get an NOYAN fruit juice .... anyway you get the idea.

[Boghos]

Boghos jan 600.000 Armenian in LA might not be able to hurt the prosperous turkish economy - but the $$$ spend by them on goods imported from turky can surly help business growth in small country like Armenia. So instead of getting your self an GAzoz imported form turky - you get an NOYAN fruit juice .... anyway you get the idea.

Hard to disagree, sireli Mos Jan. Hence our efforts should be in building ours, let the Turks be. We need to be confident of our trackrecord.

I think we end up "flattering" them with so much attention.

[MosJan]

boghos jan this is an discussion and i my self would like to see many opinions on it - have the .com/s - have the hosting - have some ideas on the design and content,

Boghos jan i promise you it will be fine my Brother
we will not be or go dawn to a level of tel tell tell or lay lay lay web sits by turks and azeris
BTW - i can't remember any turk criticizing them

[hytga]

o instead of getting your self an GAzoz imported form turky - you get an NOYAN fruit juice .... anyway you get the idea.

what? gazoz is made in turkey? I thought it was armenian

[MosJan]

have seen one 3 or 4 years a go - yellow/green color container

[vava]

Boghos jan, I realise that any consumer boycott - especially by a group as insignificant in numbers as are Armenians - will have little or no economic effect on Turkey or her industries. I don't really think that's the intent. But you touched on an idea that has some validity: there is certainly a phsychological factor associated with this type of action. People feel good about supporting a certain a collective cause. The choices are always personal - but it's exactly the grass-roots nature of such an initiative that makes it gel.

More later - gotta go....