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#1 MosJan

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Posted 05 January 2002 - 10:50 AM

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Wheel Power: Increase in women drivers changes streetlife and homelife
By Julia Hakobian
ArmeniaWeek reporter
Like the Western influences of fast-food, cell phones and MTV, a cultural shift is taking place noticeably on Armenian roadways: women drivers.

A decade ago there were fewer than 100 female drivers in Armenia. Today, according to the Armenian Motorists Federation, the number of women at the wheel is 5,000. The Federation says the number of women drivers increases yearly by 10 percent.

The Federation has been around since 1957 and in 1995 started a driving club for women.

Women's Club director, Mkrtich Pilotian says that driving makes women more self-confident, more independent and, even, more attractive. The club has about 50 members.

"It is not necessary to be an excellent driver to become a member of the club," Pilotian says."This is just a little support to those women that have other interests except housekeeping and business."

Members of the club pay 3,500 Drams (about $7) for an hour of driving instruction.

"It is well-known all over the world that women are more careful drivers." Pilotian says. "Armenian women are not an exception. Women are more attentive and accurate drivers."

The women members of the Federation test their skills against the men, in periodic figure-driving competitions.

At last year's contest, the battle of the sexes ended in a tie with each team earning three points over a course of various skills tests.

A pioneer among Armenian women drivers is Marina Shaginian, who has been driving since 1988.

It is not an unusual sight to see her maneuvering through Yerevan traffic in her Lada 06. But when she first started driving:

"Pedestrians looked out for me, and men drivers tried to stay far from me. They thought that a woman at the wheel was a sign of a coming accident."

Whereas her presence on the roads is still met with some skepticism, Shaginian says women drivers do have one major advantage over men.

"Police officers stop women less often," Shaginian says. And when cops seeking bribes do stop women drivers "it is enough to apologize with a sincerely guilty face."

There are, of course, sociological implications behind the trend in women drivers. The initiative to learn driving is symbolic of a minor, but significant trend, among Armenian women who wish to assert themselves in non-traditional roles.

Such change is not always greeted happily by men. Ura Sogomonian has been a Yerevan taxi driver for 30 years.

At his corner of Kievian and Orbeli streets every morning at about 8:30, he says he watches a woman driver in a white Niva use her rear-view mirror to apply her make-up while waiting for the traffic signal to change.

"I can hardly resist stopping her to ask if she can't do that at home," Sogomonian says. "It used to be that women wanted to have nice dresses and nice decorations. Today, they want to have a nice car."

The balance between liberation and tradition is delicate.

"I was 23 when I got married," says a woman named Alla who is now 31. "I had a job and was driving for four years.

"But my husband was against me working and driving. And I was forced to quit my job and stop driving."

Alla's husband decided that their children should attend a certain English-language school, but it was far from their home.

"I told him that I would not take the children that far by bus and said 'let them go to a regular school nearby'," Alla says.

Finally, her husband himself suggested that Alla take the children to school by car.

Now Alla drives them to school in the morning then returns home so that her husband can take the car to work. When her husband comes home for lunch, Alla takes the car to bring the children back from school.

"My husband likes this state of affairs, because while driving a car I am still a housekeeper," Alla says. "But most of all my husband likes when we go out and he can drink as much as he wants. And I drive him home afterwards."
Photos by Vahram Mkhitarian

©Copyright ArmeniaWeek Jan. 04, 2002. all rights reserved. WWW.ARMENIAWEEK.COM is published by the FOURTH MILLENNIUM SOCIETY, publishers of ARMENIAN INTERNATIONAL MAGAZINE. Articles may not be published without prior consent.

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#2 Azat

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Posted 06 January 2002 - 12:26 AM

Oh boy!!!!

I guess Artur will not get on the road anymore as more women drive.

#3 Sip

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Posted 05 January 2002 - 01:28 PM

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Please, don't kill the messenger ... I am sure Armenian women are NOT like this.

#4 MosJan

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Posted 05 January 2002 - 02:10 PM

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#5 Arturian

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Posted 07 January 2002 - 02:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Azat:
Oh boy!!!!

I guess Artur will not get on the road anymore as more women drive.





loool

Latest joke: a woman behind the weel, is like a monkey with a bomb.

#6 MosJan

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Posted 07 January 2002 - 09:38 AM

dzpo es fazert qtsir eli ???

#7 nellie

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Posted 07 January 2002 - 10:37 AM

was it just me, or did anybody else find Alla's story interesting?
first, the husband is threatened by Alla's independance--she can support herself by working and driving. NOT surprisingly, Alla obeys him so gracefully and quits the job and throws her driver's license to the side.
Then, when the husband needs Alla to drive, it's all of a sudden ok, because he will be resting his butt, while Alla runs the errands. HOW TYPICAL!
I wont be surprised at all if all of a sudden he gets enlightened tomorrow and tells her he thinks it's ok for women to work and sends her back on the job. why not? she will work during the day to support him, drop off and pick up the children during her lunch breaks, cook after work, and just when she thinks she's all done, she will have to drive him around from bar to bar.
of course, Alla won't think there's anything wrong with this. after all, she has a very open-minded, liberated husband.

#8 Harut

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Posted 07 January 2002 - 05:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nellie:
was it just me, or did anybody else find Alla's story interesting?
first, the husband is threatened by Alla's independance--she can support herself by working and driving. NOT surprisingly, Alla obeys him so gracefully and quits the job and throws her driver's license to the side.
Then, when the husband needs Alla to drive, it's all of a sudden ok, because he will be resting his butt, while Alla runs the errands. HOW TYPICAL!
I wont be surprised at all if all of a sudden he gets enlightened tomorrow and tells her he thinks it's ok for women to work and sends her back on the job. why not? she will work during the day to support him, drop off and pick up the children during her lunch breaks, cook after work, and just when she thinks she's all done, she will have to drive him around from bar to bar.
of course, Alla won't think there's anything wrong with this. after all, she has a very open-minded, liberated husband.



nellie jan, don't think that Armenian men/husbands are bumb or "hetamnats".
most of them avoid this kind of modern approaches to the life because of loud-mouth neighbours.(or similar "thing").(but again this is a "hetamnatsutyun" too )
but when there is even a small change/reason they agree to let their wives to have a very modern lives. why? because that's the correct thing to do, and they know it well.

#9 Arturian

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Posted 08 January 2002 - 06:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MosJan:
dzpo es fazert qtsir eli ???


Tson du es! Martik ira dzever unin. Durt chi ga krnas jnjes posts.

nellie, a good man in the family cares about his children and his wife. When kids are young there should be someone who would take very good care of the kids. A good mother is the one who first thinks of her kids, but not the one who is abssesed with feminism, and whose target is to prove how women are equal to men by getting a good job when it is unnecessary for the family. Take a man and a woman, and two should become one. Man - takes care of the business (external), woman- of the family (internal). The concept of the separation of the business in order to achieve the main goal. The main goal is healthy, educated kids.

As for Alla's husband, if it is that necessary, i might understand his decision (yes i do ), but i can't believe that he can't find 15 minutes in the morning to take his kids to the school.


Regards,
Artur

#10 MosJan

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Posted 08 January 2002 - 07:23 AM

artur yete knoj@t inqnasharji rek@ ches karor vstahel, yerexanerit dastirakutyun@ incpes es vstahelu? te kin@ ->> is like a monkey with a bomb <<- et depqum bavakanin mtorumnneri kariq unes...

-Tramard@ @ntaniqi drsi Patn e Kin@ nersi Pat@ -

amen andz ir @entaniqum uni ir voroshaki funktsyaner, sakayn chi nshanakum vor yete kin e uremn meqena chi karror varel yev kam iravunq chuni, kam el @entaniqi tasib@ yev namus@ kapakanvi yete kin@ meqenayi vari.

yes kaseyi kam vaxenum es vor qezanits lav en meqena qshelu kam qshum kam el vaxenum es meqenan tas qshi eta

HAykakan Traditsyan yev addat @ shat lav enq haskanum, sakayn yete lav hishes mer hin traditsyaner@ yev orenqner@ himnnvats jamanak avtomeqena der chkar, esi esora , varn el mi urish dzevov klini, jamanakner@ poxvel en, yerkir@ poxvel e, mardik el poxvum en, kyanqn el inqnin poxvum e, @entaniq@ ir tasibn u pativ@ petqe unena, maqrutyun@ yev yerexaneri dastyarakchutyun@, sakayn kin@ meqena qashelov vochinch el chi poxvum...

#11 nellie

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Posted 08 January 2002 - 11:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Harut:


nellie jan, don't think that Armenian men/husbands are bumb or "hetamnats".
most of them avoid this kind of modern approaches to the life because of loud-mouth neighbours.(or similar "thing").(but again this is a "hetamnatsutyun" too )
but when there is even a small change/reason they agree to let their wives to have a very modern lives. why? because that's the correct thing to do, and they know it well.



Harut jan, i agree with u completely.
the armenian community is the way it is because we care too much about what everybody else thinks (I am no exception to this). if we want to fit in we've got to go with the norm. but this is inch vor chapov hetamnatsutyun, something that's got to change, because often what's right for me may not be right for my neighbors.
One thing i've got to disagree with u on though, is that most of the time armenian men don't realize that this is the right thing to do, this is just what benefits them at the time, like Alla's husband.

#12 nellie

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Posted 08 January 2002 - 11:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ARTURian:


Tson du es! Martik ira dzever unin. Durt chi ga krnas jnjes posts.

nellie, a good man in the family cares about his children and his wife. When kids are young there should be someone who would take very good care of the kids. A good mother is the one who first thinks of her kids, but not the one who is abssesed with feminism, and whose target is to prove how women are equal to men by getting a good job when it is unnecessary for the family. Take a man and a woman, and two should become one. Man - takes care of the business (external), woman- of the family (internal). The concept of the separation of the business in order to achieve the main goal. The main goal is healthy, educated kids.

As for Alla's husband, if it is that necessary, i might understand his decision (yes i do ), but i can't believe that he can't find 15 minutes in the morning to take his kids to the school.


Regards,
Artur


You were somewhat right to assume that I may be a feminist. but most people have a misconception about feminism. feminism doesn't encourage equal rolesof men and women, it encourages equal rights. I agree completely. men are the providers in the family and women are the nurturers. A woman's inherent need and ability to care and nurture her children is something that i take great pride in. but again, let's not confuse one's rights with his/her roles. women should have every right as men do, what they choose to do with these rights is completely up to them. While i may decide to take on the role of housewife, my neighbor may not. Besides, what in the world does driving a car have to do with being a good mother or housewife. it can't hurt, it can only help. it makes running errands, etc, much easier and less time consuming, thus leaving the mother more valuable time to spend with her children.

#13 Arturian

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Posted 09 January 2002 - 12:35 AM

nellie, nice one. the first armenian ever girl to call herself a feminist. no comments.

About rights. Women should have all the rights men have. Don't get me wrong i don't question it. But family matter is somewhat different. In the family there is a husband. And one of woman's duty is to be loyal to husband. Wereas men's duty is to take care of his wife. There is nothing wrong with that as it is the most optimal way. It is a mutual respect.

MosJan, i think we've had cars for somewhat already 80 years, and there were probably no women driving lets say 20 years ago. But it is not the point here. The point is the protaction of the family, and careness about wife and kids. BTW, you need to work on you sence of humor. That was a joke by russian humourist Mikhail Zadornov, i don't know if you know him...

About changes, i would disagree... my family is very much traditional and i see it way higher than those from western countries. As kids we had everything and raised in very much peaceful and "organised" family with no conflics and problems. I've never seen my father and mother arguing and so on. Very much the most perfect family you can get...


Regards,
Artur

P.S. nellie, my first part had no connection with women driving, it was about women working as you wrote in the previous post.

#14 nellie

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Posted 08 January 2002 - 05:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ARTURian:

P.S. nellie, my first part had no connection with women driving, it was about women working as you wrote in the previous post.



How does it hurt the family if the wife is at work while the children are in school?
One thing that men find very hard to understand, is that women need to be somewhat independent. Don't look at the enlightened few who actually place great value on the housewife. A lot of Armenian men (of course not only Armenian) keep the wife at home because they want to have warm food in their stomach when they get home from work. At the end, after years and years of dedication and hard work, women feel as if they're not and never have been appreciated, why, because often the husband turns around and tells her that she's been living off of him, that he's supported her all these years.
Believe me, this happens more frequently then you can probably imagine.
so you can understand why women feel more comfortable when they're earning a salary, no matter how menial it is.
Women should have the benefit of knowing that they are able to support themselves, they shouldn't be dependant on their husbands. this is the reason for a lot of unhappy armenian marriages. they can't divorce their abusive, lying, cheating, disrespectful husbands because they have no means of supporting themselves and feel awkward going back to their father's house. Why? all because once upon a time their husbands felt threatened by an independant wife.

#15 Sip

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Posted 08 January 2002 - 11:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ARTURian:
...And one of woman's duty is to be loyal to husband. Wereas men's duty is to take care of his wife...

Any reason for the different wordings? I think they must BOTH be loyal to each other and take care of each other. I was listening to a Armenian marriage sermon a few months ago and the words almost seemed like they make the wife the husband's property (slave)! I think those times are at an end ... I totally agree with Nellie about:

quote:
Originally posted by nellie:
Women should have the benefit of knowing that they are able to support themselves, they shouldn't be dependant on their husbands. this is the reason for a lot of unhappy armenian marriages. they can't divorce their abusive, lying, cheating, disrespectful husbands because they have no means of supporting themselves and feel awkward going back to their father's house.


As women are becoming more independent the traditional sense of the family is bound to change. The husband does not have to only "take care of" the wife and the wife does not have to "be loyal" ... the roles can become much more similar and even reversed! So even though "traditional" families will still exist and work (as time has shown), we will see a drastic change in what "family" means ... as the western societies have been experiencing in the past decades. Unfortunately, it has resulted in a VERY high divorce rate but I think that will change as both sexes start to learn and see their new roles in the "new" family structures.

Now as far as women driving ... PLEASE put the makeup only while stopped at a stop-light or in heavy traffic. Also, it is a good idea to hang up the cel phone first (of course this last part is only a joke and I admit a really bad one so don't take it seriously ... unless you put on make-up while driving ).

#16 Arturian

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Posted 10 January 2002 - 12:59 AM

Sorry, nellie, but if a woman thinks that way as you explain, then i would say she has no logic! 2 options for you:

1. You relax, take care of the kids, enjoy yourself, have chat with friends etc. etc.

2. You work hard, to make some money, buy doing that, having no time to take care of the kids, prepare food for the family, wash clothes for your kids etc.

Which one would you choose? Second? God, if i was a woman, I would definetly go for the first one As it is more relaxed and comfortable without any problems way of living.

About wife being at work while kids are at school. When kids come from school, there should be food on the table. And not the one which you buy, put in the microwave and after 10 minutes it is ready, but propper cooked, healthy food. So, 1 - kids should have good lunch. 2, after school there should be someone to help them preparing their homework. 3, after doing homework, when father comes from work, there again should be something on the table. 4. The kids' clothes and condition should be perfect. And so on. Will there be time to do all these things if a woman works? I don't think so. And if she would find some time, it won't be benificial.

About dependancy. Woman should have her opinion and atittude towards some issues. But the last word should be man's word. And it would show only respect, and would lead to the safe and long lasting family. If not, continuous arguing, disagreement etc. would prevent in the family. Which will probably lead to the divorce.

About disrespect. On what grounds do you say that armenian men disrespect their wives? In opposite, the highest respect is shown to the wives. Men work for the sake of his family, make sure they have everything and satisfied with life.

About divorce... Do you think that divorce is an option when you have kids? When there is a kid between a man and a woman, divorce can not be even mentioned. The fact is in Armenia the number of families divorced is way to low in comparison to western, where parents first think of themselves and only then about kids.


Sip, it probably won't change. The divorce rate will still high untill they think of kids first. Parents should sacrafice themselves in the sake of their kids as nothing in life is more important than kids, don't you think so?


Regards,
Artur

#17 nellie

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Posted 09 January 2002 - 06:22 PM

Originally posted by ARTURian:
"Sorry, nellie, but if a woman thinks that way as you explain, then i would say she has no logic! 2 options for you:"

1. You relax, take care of the kids, enjoy yourself, have chat with friends etc. etc.

2. You work hard, to make some money, buy doing that, having no time to take care of the kids, prepare food for the family, wash clothes for your kids etc.

Which one would you choose? Second? God, if i was a woman, I would definetly go for the first one As it is more relaxed and comfortable without any problems way of living.


Arthur, if you went back to the beginning of this topic and read everything all over again (especially my posts) you would not blame me for being so furious. For, as I see it, you have not been listening (as carefully as you should've) to everything I've been saying. First of all, I don't think you've realized that by what you just said (quoted above), you have just validated my opinions about women's work at home not being appreciated. As I see it, you think it's fun and games to be a housewife, all you have to do is sit and chat w/friends and cook, right? what about everything else? A woman's job at home is endless, in case you've failed to notice, after the husband is home from work, he gets to relax (he's had a hard day at work); kids get to go out and play after hw is done. what does the mother/wife get to do? STILL WORK, AND WORK, AND WORK!!!!!! I don't know if you're married or not, but your mom (and wife if u have one) would definately not appreciate what you just said. think about it. I said women should work because the work they do as housewives is not appreciated. YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT.
Second of all, again you haven't been listening, I never said all women should work, I simply said that they should have the right to choose (housewife or work?) As for women being independant, DEFINATELY! If the man thinks the wife can't live and support herself without him, he'll oppress her, as simple as that.

[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: MosJan ]

#18 nellie

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Posted 09 January 2002 - 06:36 PM

Arthur, there's just a few more comments I need to make.
About men having the last word? I don't see how this is fair, do you? explain. why can't husband and wife sit down together, talk everything through, and come to a decision together. I know that sometimes they may not agree, then, there is such a thing as compromise. husband gives in sometimes, and wife at other times.
Second of all about divorce. I agree that children come first for parents. But sometimes divorce works for the benefit of the children as well. Have you ever known families where husband and wife are constantly fighting; where mother is abused and battered on a daily basis, where the children have to sit back and watch their mom being beaten, disrespected. How can you say that all armenian men respect their wives? you only feel this way because armenian women have been oppressed for so long that they have come to accept this as a fact of life.
Do you think someone is an unfit or bad mother if she divorces a husband who she's not only not in love with, but she has to accept the faith of disloyalty, lies, and disrespect if she chooses to stay in the relationship?

#19 Sip

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Posted 09 January 2002 - 11:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ARTURian:
Sorry, nellie, but if a woman thinks that way as you explain, then i would say she has no logic! 2 options for you:

1. You relax, take care of the kids, enjoy yourself, have chat with friends etc. etc.

2. You work hard, to make some money, buy doing that, having no time to take care of the kids, prepare food for the family, wash clothes for your kids etc.

Which one would you choose? Second? God, if i was a woman, I would definetly go for the first one As it is more relaxed and comfortable without any problems way of living.

So according to your "logic", it is good to relax, have a chat with friends, and enjoy yourself in life? Man that would be a pretty dull life! What about ambitions, dreams, desires, motivation, thirst for knowledge ... all the GOOD stuff that make life interesting? Are you saying a logical woman should give all that up, relax, take care of the kids, and chat with friends all day? I am sorry but that is NOT my idea of an ideal family. That may have worked in the Dark Ages but not in the 21-st century.

I consider myself very privileged to have been raised in a family where both my parents were very successful in their careers ... my dad was a university professor and my mom was an eye surgeon in Iran. They had PLENTY of time for us kids (3 brothers) even with their very busy schedules and they always put us first. That's why they gave EVERYTHING up and moved to the US to start fresh. My Dad hasn't had a real job since we left Iran about 12 years ago (he teaches part time at Universities) and my mom never had the time or the energy to go relearn everything and become a certified doctor in the US. So she started teaching contact lenses at a college now. I will never be able to repay them for their huge sacrifice but I think they have managed to do a great job even though they both had very full professional lives. The key was they thought about the kids first and themselves second. That is the real key to raising childeren that will be valuable members of the society.

#20 Arturian

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Posted 10 January 2002 - 04:40 PM

Nellie, don't get me wrong, but the work mothers as housewives do should be more than appreciated. You are right, it is difficult and it is really endless, but life is full of sacrfices for the sake of kids. And both parents, mother and father should sacrafice themselves. About appreciation, in opposite kids will appreciate their work the most when they are grown. Myself, i know my mother just lived for two of us and sacraficied her whole life for us. And i more than appreciate that, there aren't words can express the appreciation.

About man#s word being last. We have discussed 200 hundred times this issue. And at the bottom line, my point is that in the family, man should be the host. The decision should obviously come from talking, weighting etc. But the last word should be behind man. Otherwise there will be disorder in family and too many arguement over some silly issues. Woman should show respect by submitting herself to her husband, whereas man should carefully listen to his wife and make sure the desicion does not dissapoint her. In my family, i don't remember my father and mother arguing, and there were no problems (according to what i have seen). Nellie, don't get me wrong, husband should respect his wife in full as nobody in this world (after parents of course), and he should listen to her, and they should surely find a compromise. But the life is not that easy and sometimes there can be a conflict. And this is a major reason why there are so many divorces in american families.

Then, if a man raises his hand over his wife, he cannot be called a man. If a man raises his voice at his wife, again cannot be called a man. In this case, i might agree that the divorce might be the last thing, but still it is the last and probably the only reason that they come to this decision. Not all people perfect and it surely happens. And women, who take this and sacrifice themselves for the sake of kids, will gain the highest appreciation from kids when they are grown. I have known one case like that.


Sip, if you would live in Armenia you wouldn't say it. Do you think it is easy to earn money? Ambitions, dreams, motivations are for americans. For us is sacrficing, doing something, trying to earn something so you family has something to eat. And here women's duty can be seen more relaxed and logically the one.

About you story, i wish the best to your parents and may God give them good sound health and long life! They did sacrifice themselves for the sake of you, and they should be more than appreciated. God bless them!

Please read my posts carefully, as i say if it is unnecessary, it would be better for wife to stay at home rather than work. It is pure business, and in business term it is correct. I don't know if what you studied, but I read it couple of years ago in People and Organisations coursebook, and they were actually giving this example of a family talking about matters of business.


Regards,
Artur




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