Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Beruitsy Armenian Dialect


  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#1 Bones98

Bones98

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Location:Sherman Oaks
  • Interests:Death Metal. Thrash Metal, Black Metal, Gore Metal, Speed Metal, and any other metal thats really crazy and extreme.

Posted 28 September 2003 - 07:17 PM

Know, I have been barely introducted to beruitsy type of armenian and
it seems that the sentence and tense structure is changed.
Like if u want to say "what are u saying"
u have to say : Inch Ke ses gor
My mother says that this is the first form of the armenian language
and I was wondering if that is true or not.

#2 Sip

Sip

    Buffet Connoisseur

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,365 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Online

Posted 28 September 2003 - 07:23 PM

What does it mean "first form" and why would the "first form" of anything not be where it originates? Unless your mom believes Armenians originated from Beirut. :)

But if she means it's the first form of "western Armenian" then that would kinda make sense.

#3 TimeForChange

TimeForChange

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 28 September 2003 - 08:41 PM

And how would YOU have said "what are you doing"? I only know one way of saying it: "Ints gessess kor", and I didn't know that there was another way of saying it, so I'm curious to find out...

#4 Sip

Sip

    Buffet Connoisseur

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,365 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Online

Posted 28 September 2003 - 08:46 PM

"Inch es anum?" <=> "What are you doing?"
"Inch es asum?" <=> "What are you saying?"

The verbs being "anel" and "asel" which translate to "doing" and "saying". "Inch" means "what" and the "es" just makes it all work (to address it as a question to a second person).

"inch gesses kor" probably means "what are you saying" (not doing) but I'm not too familiar with western Armenian.

#5 TimeForChange

TimeForChange

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 28 September 2003 - 09:04 PM

Thanks Sip. BTW, my mistake, I meant to write "saying'' as in the first example, not "doing". With doing, it would be "Inch geness kor?".

In the example you provided in Eastern Armenian, doesn't "anel" mean "to remove"? (In western, it does...)

#6 Azat

Azat

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,969 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles, CA
  • Interests:wine, beer, food, art, jokes

Posted 28 September 2003 - 09:10 PM

remove -> hanel

#7 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 28 September 2003 - 09:33 PM

First off there is no such thing as :kor" in proper Armenian. We would have our mouths filled with hot pepper for using it.
It is not necessary to use "kor" when a simple "inc k@ses" (in the present tense) is more than sufficient. The "kor" is erroneously added to make it a continuous tense.
The "kor" is probably a Turkish influence. I will not go into Turkish semantics. Some time ago we had a heated debate about the use of "kor". Majority of the consensus was that it was from Turkish. Even if it is an emulation of Turkish grammar it is wholly and uniquely Armenian, even if it totally unnecessary as you will see why.

The Armenian language is comprised of two major families, the "um" family that is commonly known as Eatern and the "k@" family, western. As it was demonstarted in the "um" family one would say; "Inch es anUM"? While in the "k@" family it would be "Inch k@nes"? "k@nes" is a contraction od "k@ @nes".
Coming back to "kor/gor".
If you listen to some Armenians from Istanbul, specially those who had been originally from Sebastia you will hear them say things like; Utem k@, berm k@. The place the "k@" at the end of the phrase. Some may even go even further and say; "K@ utem k@, k@ berem k@". It is the second K@ that has evolved into the "kor/gor" when one says "K@ uem kor" or simply; "Utem kor" etc.

Just as Sip posed the question; When did the Beirutsis become such linguists. By now their Armenian is probably 25% Turkish, 25% Arabic, 25% French and English and maybe 25% Armenian.
  • onjig likes this

#8 Teutonic Knight

Teutonic Knight

    Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 28 September 2003 - 10:12 PM

Arpa is correct, in so called Western Armenian there is no such thing as "gor".
Most Diasporans I know use the word and at the same time say that they try not to but just can't stop it.

#9 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 28 September 2003 - 10:43 PM

Arpa is correct, in so called Western Armenian there is no such thing as "gor".
Most Diasporans I know use the word and at the same time say that they try not to but just can't stop it.

This reminds me how we would mock our teachers making up such sentences as if they were saying: "Tso ankhelq apush kezi k@sem GOR vor Hayeren lezvi mej GOR goyutyun chuni. Ays hazarerord angam e vor kezi k@sem GOR, Hayeren lezvin mej GOR chka, k'uzes GOR vor norem @sem"?

#10 Teutonic Knight

Teutonic Knight

    Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 28 September 2003 - 11:14 PM

Arpa is correct, in so called Western Armenian there is no such thing as "gor".
Most Diasporans I know use the word and at the same time say that they try not to but just can't stop it.

This reminds me how we would mock our teachers making up such sentences as if they were saying: "Tso ankhelq apush kezi k@sem GOR vor Hayeren lezvi mej GOR goyutyun chuni. Ays hazarerord angam e vor kezi k@sem GOR, Hayeren lezvin mej GOR chka, k'uzes GOR vor norem @sem"?

That sentence was DISTURBING :blink:
lol @ tso

That sounds like some of the Diasporan kids trying to speak Armenian to impress the Yerevantsis.

#11 Harut

Harut

    Վերնագիր

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,734 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:հորիզոն...
  • Interests:uninterested...

Posted 29 September 2003 - 02:24 AM

The verbs being "anel" and "asel" which translate to "doing" and "saying". "Inch" means "what" and the "es" just makes it all work (to address it as a question to a second person).

oh boy...

inch = what
es = are (from linel = to be)
anum = doing (from anel = to do)

inch es anum? = what are [you] doing?

#12 TimeForChange

TimeForChange

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 30 September 2003 - 05:43 PM

''That sounds like some of the Diasporan kids trying to speak Armenian to impress the Yerevantsis.'' (Teuton)


Tell me Teuton, what is the point of your comment? Why would a Diasporan kid want to ''impress'' the Yerevantsis? I happen to be a Diasporan"kid'', and I do NOT give a Fxxx about what a Yerevantsi thinks of me. The only reason why I bother to speak Armenian is because I owe it to my ancestors. It's called TRADITION and FAMILY VALUES. It's got nothing to do with impressing anybody but myself. So, on behalf of all "Diasporan kids", I'm asking you to change your distorted view right here right now. And, apologizing wouldn't be a bad thing either. Thank you very much.

Comments like yours only divide Armenians, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Hell, if I read other comments like that, I won't see the point of giving not even a single dime to Armenia. Why would I if I don't get the respect I deserve? Who would be foolish enough to give his hard-earned money to a country that doesn't recognize him as one of his own? Put yourself in my shoes and try to answer the question.

As for Arpa, I might be wrong, but the "gor" is just added as the equivalent of the "ing" in English.
Example: What are you saying? - Inch gessess kor?
What say you? - Inch gessess? (also means "really?" or "what do you think about it?'')
  • onjig likes this

#13 Sip

Sip

    Buffet Connoisseur

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,365 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Online

Posted 30 September 2003 - 06:07 PM

Considering I haven't had much "formal" Armenian education, it is funny that sometimes I seem to speak cleaner "formal" Armenian than a lot of the new Yerevantsi's that come to LA. :D I have to start throwing in a bunch of "ara ara ara's" and a few "vapshe"'s just to help them understand sometimes :blink:

#14 TimeForChange

TimeForChange

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 48 posts

Posted 30 September 2003 - 06:27 PM

Just as Sip posed the question; When did the Beirutsis become such linguists. By now their Armenian is probably 25% Turkish, 25% Arabic, 25% French and English and maybe 25% Armenian.

When did ''Beirutsis'' ever pretended being Armenian linguists anyway? With all the Soviet corruption made to the Armenian spoken in Armenia, they might actually be more Armenian than people with Armenian citizenship!

As for your percentages, make that 25% turkish,25% Arabic, 25% French and 25% English and 0% Armenian while you're at it. That will certainly make them feel welcome in Armenia and feel Armenian. Vive l'Armenie. (that's Beirutsy Armenian (French) for "Hurray for Armenia")

#15 ED

ED

    Քեռի

  • Nobility
  • 5,960 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles
  • Interests:Music, traveling, Salvador Dali, Tolstoy, Sevak, Charents
    wine, sushi and lots lots more

Posted 30 September 2003 - 06:43 PM

Considering I haven't had much "formal" Armenian education, it is funny that sometimes I seem to speak cleaner "formal" Armenian than a lot of the new Yerevantsi's that come to LA.  :D  I have to start throwing in a bunch of "ara ara ara's" and a few "vapshe"'s just to help them understand sometimes  :blink:

Barev bolorit, bolorin, amenqit, amenin

Now what was wrong with that sentence? inch eq kartsum? nuynen kartsumem bolornel/amennel/lrivel/amboxjnel!

Itís easy to get confused in all the dialects we speak in Armenian or Diaspora.

I agree with you Sepean jan, Just like I have to throw in a line like.

Babam zang xpap tun@ mart chkar ell :D

How would an Armenian from Armenia understand that?

Can we all get along/yolla gnanq/harmarvenq? :)

Ps. why do we have to use "tsi" to define an Armenian from somewhere? Just wondering <_<

Edited by Edward, 30 September 2003 - 06:45 PM.


#16 Azat

Azat

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,969 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles, CA
  • Interests:wine, beer, food, art, jokes

Posted 30 September 2003 - 07:24 PM

Ps. why do we have to use "tsi" to define an Armenian from somewhere? Just wondering <_<

In my world we don't but if others want to define themselves as Horses - "tsi" that is fine by me.

I tell people that I am Armenian when asked where I am from, and when they ask me where I came from or where I was born I do tell them that I was born in Armenia, however when they turn to me and say "Hayastantsi es" I tell them I am not a horse, but they are welcome to be one if they want.

#17 Azat

Azat

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,969 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles, CA
  • Interests:wine, beer, food, art, jokes

Posted 30 September 2003 - 07:26 PM

Considering I haven't had much "formal" Armenian education, it is funny that sometimes I seem to speak cleaner "formal" Armenian than a lot of the new Yerevantsi's that come to LA. :D I have to start throwing in a bunch of "ara ara ara's" and a few "vapshe"'s just to help them understand sometimes :blink:

Sip, ara ape inchi es @tents baner asum huh? Vopshem avel pakas ban chxoses. eghav. te che razbiriati ketanq. :D

#18 Teutonic Knight

Teutonic Knight

    Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 30 September 2003 - 08:07 PM

Sip, ara ape inchi es @tents baner asum huh? Vopshem avel pakas ban chxoses. eghav. te che razbiriati ketanq. :D

Let me try and fix that Armenian version of ebonics/slang:

Sip, paron inchu ek artyok aydpisi baner asum? Karch asats, khndrum em shat mi khosek izur tegh@, haskaneli eh husov em dzez ayd parz gaghapar@. Tsayrahegh depkum kareli eh ays harts@ lutsel ankaghakavar mijavayrum.

Ps: To the gentlelemn that was offended by that comment. I'm not Armenian, not by a longshot. I'm just stating the facts, that's the reality. You guys are treated like more of an "odar" than I am.

#19 Harut

Harut

    Վերնագիր

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,734 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:հորիզոն...
  • Interests:uninterested...

Posted 30 September 2003 - 08:21 PM

Paron Ishxan, k'hajoyeiq ardyoq kisel mez het dzer hayereni aydpisi gerazants gitaktsutyan gaghtniq@?

#20 Teutonic Knight

Teutonic Knight

    Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 30 September 2003 - 09:17 PM

Paron Ishxan, k'hajoyeiq ardyoq kisel mez het dzer hayereni aydpisi gerazants gitaktsutyan gaghtniq@?

Anshousht, metsaguyn hachuykov. Hay lezun krum e haryur hazaramyakneri patmakan hishoghoutyun, ousti lezvapahpanutyun@ hamazgayin ev nuyn pahin mijazgayin gerkhntir eh. Nahangnerum Grapar sovoreluts anmijapes heto, Haykum Hay lezvi dasntatsneri aytseletsi ughigh erku tari.

Isk inchu ishkhan ev voch aspet? :)

Edited by Teutonic Knight, 30 September 2003 - 09:19 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users