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#441 Arpa

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 11:40 AM

A totally separate subject maybe?
Where were our neo-dialecticians when Komitas wrote the following - Garun A and Ho ara yez@ ? And Ho Horovel?
Which “dialect” did Komitas speak. Kutahya or Kanaker?

Գարուն ա, ձուն ա արել,
Վայ, լէ,լէ,լէ, վայ, լէ, լէ,

Իմ յարն ինձնից ա սառել:
Ախ, չորնայ, վախ, այ յար
Չար մարդու լեզուն:

Քամին փչում ա պաղ-պաղ,
Լերդ ու թոքս անոմ ա դաղ:

Յար, ինձ բէմուրադ արիր,-
Սէրըդ ինձնէ զատ արիր:




Allow me to rewrite the above in the so called western vernacular.

Գարուն է ձիւն է եկեր**
Իմ սիրածը ինձնից է սառեր
Քամին կը փչի պաղ պաղ
Եար, ինձ ան իղձ ըրիր
Սէրըդ ինձմէ զատեցիր


**Եկուր եկուր աղուոր աղջիկ
Արի արի քԷ մատաղ
Հո արա եզը արա հօ

OH! How I miss this kind of music!!! Those beautiful boys! I cry every time. When did ivan ivinovich produce this kind of “rabizo “music?
Pleas no euro-voro vizhum!!


How many here watch that so called garbage “eurovision/vorovizhen?

Edited by Arpa, 18 May 2011 - 02:56 PM.


#442 Sarkis11

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 05:36 PM

I see that in this thread people are using the words թրքահայերէն and ռուսահայերէն with mistaken meanings and as insults. I am not at all insulted when they tell me I speak Turkish Armenian, or someone else speaks Russian Armenian. Let me elaborate.

As someone explained at the beginning, there were innumerable dialects all over the territories populated by Armenians. In the West, the people of Istanbul gathered all the dialects from the Western areas and systematized them in what is known today as Western Armenian. In the East, the Leningrad School gathered and systematized all the dialects from the Eastern areas. Keep this in mind: Istanbul and Leningrad, and a little bit from Tbilisi; not Yerevan, not Bourj Hammoud, not Aleppo, not Teheran, not Paris, not Hollywood, not Glendale.

So because one comes from Istanbul, is called Turkish Armenian, and because the other comes from Leningrad is called Russian Armenian. Russian Armenian is not the slang of Yerevan or a mixture of Russian and Armenian; it is the Armenian language systematized in Leningrad. And Turkish Armenian is not the slang of Istanbul or Bourj Hammoud, nor is a mixture of Turkish and Armenian; it is the Armenian language systematized in Istanbul. Therefore the Armenians who speak Eastern Armenian, whether it is in Yerevan, Moscow, Teheran. Hollywood or Pasadena, are speaking Russian Armenian, and the people who speak Western Armenian, whether in Istanbul, Beirut, Aleppo, Glendale or Paris, are speaking Turkish Armenian.

So there are պարսկահայեր, but there is no պարսկահայերէն. The language is either թրքահայերէն or ռուսահայերէն, or, with the politically correct names, արեւմտահայերէն and արեւելահայերէն։

There is nothing wrong with either one. They are both the same language. As Arpa said earlier, if you really know Armenian, you understand both languages when you read our poets or even our newspapers. Even though I cannot understand the slang of some people here in Glendale or Pasadena, I have no problem reading any Armenian authors from Yerevan, or newspapers or websites. It is the same language.

The local slang and the mixing with local languages, be it Russian, Turkish, Farsi, Arabic, French, Spanish or English, are totally different issues. Those “languages” don’t have names; they are not Persian Armenian, Arabic Armenian, or Spanish Armenian. They are just local hybridizations within the colloquial use of people who don’t have a formal education in the language. It is merely circumstantial. If they went to school and learned the proper Armenian words, they would not mix the local languages with Armenian.

Even though people often mean it as insults, I don’t feel insulted when someone accuses me of speaking Turkish Armenian. It is a perfectly valid variety of Armenian, as valid as Russian Armenian. Both varieties have outstanding literature. Both varieties are worth preserving and teaching to our children. To say that people who speak Turkish Armenian are lesser Armenians than the rest, or vice-versa, is not acceptable.

#443 Louise Kiffer

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:51 PM

Thank you for this explanation,it is very interesting. The alphabet is the same, and I can read it, that is important.
And as Arpa said, I can guess when russian armenian is spoken. In anyway the villages dialects are lost, only a few words
are remaining.

#444 Sarkis11

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:38 PM

In my previous post of July 20, 2011, I had said that Western Armenian had been compiled and systematized in Constantinople, today’s Istanbul, and that Eastern Armenian underwent the same process in Leningrad, Russia, and Tbilisi, Georgia. Well, it so happens that I had read about it long time ago, and didn’t remember the details very well. I just reread it again and realized I had made a mistake that I want to correct now.

The main center for the making of Eastern Armenian was not Leningrad (St. Petersburg), as I had said earlier, but Moscow’s Lazarian Armenian Institute. Yes, no doubt that there were Armenian intellectuals in St. Petersburg, but the principal place was Moscow. The other more important centers were Tbilisi, in Georgia, and Astrakhan, in Russia, a city at approximately 1000 km from Armenia, near the Northern tip of the Caspian Sea.

Apparently, the Lazarian Institute was founded in 1815 as a “gymnasium” (secondary school) by the Lazarian brothers —Lazarev in Russian— and in 1827 was transferred to the Ministry of Public Education and renamed Lazarev Institute of Oriental Languages. At some point its curriculum was expanded to include an in-depth study of languages for higher grades. Between 1919 and 1920 it was renamed Armenian Institute, then Central Institute of Modern Oriental Languages, and finally Moscow Institute of Oriental Studies.

In the 1930s, attendance shrunk dramatically, and the Institute was merged with the foreign language division of the more prestigious schools of Moscow.

The Lazarian building is utilized at the present time as the headquarters for the Armenian Embassy of Moscow.

In 2001 the Russian government honored the Lazarian Brothers and the Lazarian Institute with a postal stamp bearing the photos of Ivan Lazarian and of the school building. Many important Armenian writers and influential intellectuals were Lazarian Institute graduates.

There are some articles about the Lazarian Institute that can be found easily in the Internet. If you can read Armenian, click on the “Armenian” link of the Wikipedia article because the content of the article in Armenian is a little more detailed than that of the English version.




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