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Bowling for Columbine


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#1 vava

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Posted 10 March 2003 - 06:55 PM

I just recently saw a documentary by Michael Moore called Bowling for Columbine. I think it was fabulous - and I recommend everyone to view it!

He examines American gun culture - and 'fear' culture in an extremely witty & entertaining style. He takes a look a US foreign policy, he conducts several inteviews, including NRA president Charlton Heston & rock musician Marylin Manson. His objective is to examine why folks in Canada & Europe aren't killing eachother at the same rate as Americans.

It's hilarious & frightening at the same time. Here are some links:

View the Trailer

Or view some clips from the movie.

You can also find out more interesting information at the Director's site: MichaelMoore.com.

#2 vava

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Posted 10 March 2003 - 06:56 PM

Stormy, I particularly think you'll love it.

#3 Azat

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Posted 10 March 2003 - 08:42 PM

Vava, In my opinion Michael Moore did a much better movie in "Roger & Me". I thought that "Bowling For Columbine" was the typical "too many firearms", we are all anti gun nonsense crap.

Let me clarify that I have never owned any form of a firearm and have not even held one in my hands ever, however I believe that it is not the firearm, but the idiots who own it that should be blamed for the killings.

In the US there are much more people are killed with knifes then with guns. I do not hear people screaming for knife control. Crime success rates fall from 88% to just above 30% when people use guns as compare to knifes.

In Switzerland the crime rate is next to nothing, yet by law every family has to own a gun and ammunition. It is required by LAW.

how come in England the murder rate is going up drastically yet the country has some of most restrictive gun laws anywhere?

In Israel, the homicide rate is very low yet 10% of the population carries concealed weapons legally.

How come Canada(yes your country that I love. I really do) with a population of 30+ million and 7-25 million guns enjoy a low per capita murder rate?

Unfortunately Mr. Moore does not wish to address these issues. He just jumped on the anti-gun bandwagon to make a buck. Boo...

#4 vava

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Posted 10 March 2003 - 09:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Azat:
I thought that "Bowling For Columbine" was the typical "too many firearms", we are all anti gun nonsense crap.
.....
Unfortunately Mr. Moore does not wish to address these issues. He just jumped on the anti-gun bandwagon to make a buck. Boo...

Hmmmm. Azat, I think you may have missed the point in some of his commentary. Anti-gun nonsense? Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think so - I don't believe that tackling the gun control issue was his intent.

quote:
How come Canada(yes your country that I love. I really do) with a population of 30+ million and 7-25 million guns enjoy a low per capita murder rate?
As a matter of fact he underlines the point that per Canada has a whole lot of firearms - he even goes to a Canadian Wal-Mart and purchases a wack of ammunition - from 9mm to 12 guage. He compares the two cultures, and he even asks outright, "Why don't Canadians kill other Canadians the way Americans kill other Americans?"

I don't think he's anti-gun at all... (well, maybe a little) His main focus IMO is a trust/fear issue within the American psyche. He puts forth a hypothesis that scathingly points out American fear. Americans are afraid, according to Moore. Afraid of crime and criminals, afraid of other cultures/countries/religions, afraid to die and afraid, perhaps most of all, of eachother. 'Fear-culture' is the problem - not guns per say, although lack of gun control certainly doesn't help. I think he has an interesting point. I found the movie rather refreshing (and even quite humourous at times )

I think I'll go see it again...

[ March 10, 2003, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: vava ]

#5 Azat

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Posted 11 March 2003 - 08:19 AM

I may need to watch this movie as well as I do not remember al the details now since it was few months ago. But I do remember coming out and thinking that Mr Moore pretended that he was presenting the gun issue but the movie was all the same anti gun blah blah blah.

Maybe I am wrong and I did not understand the movie.

#6 Stormig

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Posted 11 March 2003 - 08:32 AM

quote:
Originally posted by vava:
Stormy, I particularly think you'll love it.

Now what gave you that idea?

#7 vava

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Posted 11 March 2003 - 10:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Azat:

Maybe I am wrong and I did not understand the movie.

That's probably not entirely true - I have a hard time believing that you, our famous, super-intelligent, ultra-eloquent Azat, might have any semblance of difficulty understanding anything at all! Although I do admit that what I found interesting about the movie was more of an undercurrent rather than something very blatant - some of Moore's messaging wasn't always very obvious. And I certainly don't agree with Moore on everything... but it was just an interesting perspective that I had not been exposed to...

#8 vava

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Posted 11 March 2003 - 10:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Stormy:
quote:
Originally posted by vava:
Stormy, I particularly think you'll love it.

Now what gave you that idea?
This thread!

#9 THOTH

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Posted 11 March 2003 - 11:06 AM

M Moore is an American Hero IMO. (agree with him 100% or not...) I haven't seen the movie - but I'm certain I will like most of what he attempts to convey...all that being said I am one of those (proud) American Gun owners (& even a former NRA member - LOL)! I understand/appreciate the NRA position - but - for the most part it is way to extreme for me. Our nation has a (gun) problem that is totally out of control. All things must be properly weighed against each other IMO. While I generally oppose government intrusion onto individual rights I think a balance must be struck...though for the most part I think we are so far over in terms of easy (hand)gun and even assault weapon availability - not sure anything can really be done (in the near term) to lessen the situation. Would I give up my guns? Perhaps...though not willingly/happily...but I do think guns must be registered/tracked and as much as possible kept out of the hands of criminals & loony toons (thorough rigourous background checks and severe penalties for criminal use and unregistered possesion etc)...and do I really need my assault weapon? No - a "luxury" certainly...but again I am loath to give it up...(as well as give up the rest of my "arsenal"...much of which has - a the very least - sentimental as well as family history - value...

#10 vava

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Posted 11 March 2003 - 01:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by THOTH:
...and do I really need my assault weapon? No - a "luxury" certainly...but again I am loath to give it up....

Well, i know i will no longer disagree with you Thoth, not now that I know you carry assault weapons!!!

#11 Azat

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Posted 17 March 2003 - 07:50 PM

System of a Down and Michael Moore Join Forces for 'BOOM!' Video

LOS ANGELES, March 17 /PRNewswire/ -- If ever there were a time in our
young country's history when System of a Down's song "BOOM!" was appropriate,
it's right now, today, with America and the world on the brink of war. System
of a Down has joined forces with director Michael Moore and the crew from
"Bowling for Columbine" to make the video for "BOOM!"
"The strangest thing about this impending war is that the people -- the
REAL majority who make up the population of this country and the world -- do
not truly want to go to war," said Michael Moore. "Watching the news, you
would never know that millions have been out there proposing a different
solution -- one that does not involve the slaughter of innocents. It is these
people whom we will give voice to in 'BOOM!'"
Much of "BOOM!" was shot by independent media activists and local guerilla
filmmakers at the various marches that took place across the globe over the
weekend of February 15 - Presidents' Day weekend -- Berlin, Cape Town, Rome,
Paris, Tokyo, Washington, D.C., London, Chicago, Oslo, Rio de Janeiro,
Croatia, St. Louis, Los Angeles -- and Iraq -- to mention just a few of the
40+ locales where footage was incorporated from. The video opens with a
blistering array of images that show just how massive and overwhelming the
desire for peace is throughout America and the world. Testimonies from
marchers -- fathers, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, aunts and uncles,
grandparents -- are heard: "We don't believe the lies that are being fed
through the media," or "I don't understand why dropping bombs on children is
the best way to achieve peace."
The video "BOOM!" is a life-affirming video that rallies people to
visualize, and then create, the world they want to live in. "BOOM!" looks to
empower people with the knowledge that war is ultimately their choice, not the
media's nor the government's.
"The possibility of the U.S. going to war with Iraq is an extremely
personal issue for me, because I have family who live there," said System of a
Down's guitarist Daron Malakian. "I visited Iraq when I was a teenager, and I
can tell you first-hand that the people who I met there are really nice,
ordinary people who don't want war with us or with anyone. So, we'd like to
have the 'BOOM!' video help change the way people think about the solution to
our global problems. We want to make the idea of dropping bombs, of waging
war seem as antiquated and ridiculous as it is today for an Afro-American to
have to sit at the back of the bus."
"We'd like the 'BOOM!' video to represent the importance and the beauty of
humanity, the desire people have to live in a world without fear, without war
or the rumors of war," explained Serj Tankian, vocalist for System.
The members of System of a Down -- Serj Tankian, Daron Malakian, Shavo
Odadjian, and John Dolmayan -- armed with their own digital cameras, were
filmed at the Los Angeles pro-peace march. Satirical animation that features
George W., Saddam Hussein, Prime Minister Tony Blair, and Osama bin Laden
riding rockets over a city has also been incorporated into the video.
"Like Woody Guthrie or Bob Dylan," added Moore, "System of a Down has
crafted a true protest song for the new millennium with 'BOOM!' I think it
will be a powerful, moving music video that will speak to the desires of the
millions who will see it -- and it will let them know that they, the people of
peace, are not alone."

The rock band System of a Down is comprised of four Armenian-Americans who
have been politically outspoken throughout their careers. The group's second
album, Toxicity, released on September 4, 2001, debuted at #1 on the
Billboard/Soundscan charts and has sold in excess of 4-million copies
worldwide. Toxicity was named one of the Best Albums of 2001 in publications
such as Rolling Stone, Time, and Spin. Four singles from Toxicity were Top 10
tracks at radio, including the smash hit "Aerials" which reached the Number
One position on the singles charts. The single "BOOM!" is from the band's
most recent album, Steal This Album which was released on November 26, 2002,
has been certified Gold and is just shy of Platinum status.

For further information, please contact Heidi Ellen Robinson-Fitzgerald,
+1-323-634-4112, heidi.robinson@artistdirect.com, for System of a Down.

#12 vava

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Posted 17 March 2003 - 08:03 PM

Wow, can't wait to see it! Any idea of the release date?

#13 Sip

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Posted 17 March 2003 - 10:03 PM

[ March 17, 2003, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Sip ]

#14 Sip

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Posted 17 March 2003 - 10:03 PM

Believe it or not, one reason I applied to some texas universities like Rice and UT Austin is the gun laws in texas and how easy it is to get a concealed carry license there. California gun control laws are simply STUPID.

You can own a blue SIG 228 but not a silver one. You can get the 9mm and the 45 of a certain gun but not the 357. All sorts of idiotic crap like that. On top of that, now you have to have a california approved trigger lock!!! WTF is that all about? You buy a gun, it COMES with a trigger lock ... but nooooooooooo ... you have to pay an extra $15 to get the special super duper california approved lock which looks and works just like the lock that already comes with your gun. That is just WHACK

#15 Cilician

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 05:18 AM

I watched this movie a few weeks ago and was a bit disappointed. I think that he glossed over a lot of important statistic which made them unfair, did his usual hijacking of people who had no blame, etc. Let me explain.

(WARNING: The remainder of this text may "spoil" the movie for you if you plan to watch it and are one of those people who can't know anything about a movie before watching it!)

When he says that Canada does not have nearly as much violet crime, he does not mention that America has over 10x as many people. Or when he mentions numbers of homocides in Australia he does not mention that they have 15x less people. When he mentions England which again has much fewer people, he does not mention that gun ownership is severly limited there, so that even police do not carry them. The only way to be fair here is to mention statistics per capita or per thousand residents. To simply throw out numbers like that and leave it to the audience to make sense of it is extremely dishonest to me.

As for his targets in the movie, the attack of K-mart was very unfair. Yes, the bullets were bought there, but how is that K-marts fault? Taking handicapped victims to their headquarters was cheap, unless he went and did it to every bullet retailer in Colorado or nationwide. The honest thing to do would have been to lobby for gun restrictions if that is your true goal.

Anyways, these sorts of issues prevented me from enjoying the movie as much as I could have.

#16 MJ

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 05:58 AM

I have not seen the movie but am familiar with some of the traditional allegations.

Those who link the crime rate in US to the gun ownership conveniently "forget" to mention that a disproportionate number of gun caused killings take place in few localities such as South Central Los Angeles, which are historically zones of poverty which still have not been able to cope with the legacy of slavery and the such. If one looks at the geography of the crime rates in US, even in the case of absence of analytic thinking it would be not hard to realize that that rate has not too much link to the legal gun ownership.

Perhaps one can bring an additional argument or two to question the validity of the "anti-gun" sentiment. For example, there are cities in US, where it is mandatory due to the local law to own gun. However, the crime rate in these cities is next to nothing.

#17 khodja

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 08:27 AM

Millions of Americans own a lethal weapon, the automobile. It is HOW you use this weapons that is critical, not the weapon itself. The PROBLEM is the mentality of gun owners, not their ownership per se. I have no problem with peaceful people owning guns. Unfortunately, those most adamant about the freedom of gun ownership hold political views which I find abhorrent. Many of these people harbor thoughts of maiming or killing those who don't agree with them or those they harbor hatred toward. The problem is in the brain.

#18 khodja

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 08:34 AM

The Columbine Coverup. What is left out of the news is the undercurrent that propelled those two young students to do what they did. Both were strugglng with homosexual feelings and had been harassed unmercifully for many years by their peers. The school adminstrators had done nothing to stop this and had even encouraged the tormentors.

#19 564312

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 08:49 AM

I agree with Hagarag. Raffi I did not see the movie but I saw him in Oprah and from what he said in the show it sounded very interesting and funny, for example the part where people could get free guns in a certain bank if they signed up for an account. The Japanese population compared to American population and the gun murder rate in both countries; Japan few hundred America 11000? That the percentages of gun murders are higher with white Americans then blacks and how the media escalades a fear in people even when the crime rate is low (actually they teach this in criminology classes)

#20 Azat

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 10:14 PM

Moore is a stupid white man who plays on peoples emotions. That is all. I do not like the guy, especially after this last movie. Like I said Roger and Me was a MUCH better movie.

He got on that same Ophra show that 54312 was mentioning and said that white men own guns because they fear the black man. Correct? He said that you could walk in South Central LA at night and not fear anyone. OK.... But then he was caught on another show saying that 9/11 would not have happened if there were some black brothers on those planes. He said "blacks do not fear whites and know how to kick their ass". Now tell me Mr raciest A-hole, are you telling me that I should fear or not fear the black person.




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